May 2002
posts
Great
Eliza Dushku quote re: the complexity & interconnectedness
of "Buffy" eps -- Rob, 10:14:10 05/10/02
Fri
"Dushku's refusal to admit that she's a famous face is a
testament to her modesty. Hell, her role on Buffy alone made
her a known quantity, the kind that magazines beg to have
gracing their cover. Her stint on the show was not only
invigorating to viewers, but was an experience Dushku has
long thought about rekindling. "It's hard because the
storylines are so intricate and they're so well thought out.
I don't even think you know how much. Basically they'll say
to me, 'We'd love to have you back on Buffy could we
schedule you for like a September episode?' They go that far
back to start adding in little things. Every show is so
planned and every moment is so researched that they have to
plan out that far ahead. And it's hard for me to say, 'Yes,
I'll be available in September.' If a script comes along
tomorrow that I'm just nuts about I may have to be ready to
start it in 2 weeks. So it's hard to schedule that. But I'd
love to go back. I love the people, I love Joss."'
Read the whole article h
ere.
Rob
[>
Cool! -- Masq, 10:40:38 05/10/02 Fri
I love Eliza and Faith. On either BtVS or AtS!
[> [>
Ditto! (NT) -- Goji3, 10:59:24 05/10/02 Fri
[>
I'd love to see another Faith episode! -- Traveler,
11:01:31 05/10/02 Fri
[>
Re:" If a script comes along tomorrow that I'm
just nuts about " -- wiscoboy, 13:12:56 05/10/02
Fri
She's not working on Buffy due to the 'just got to do' roles
she's been doing in film? Who's she kidding? I think it's
called 'it's just the money stupid'. She's been doing
nothing but crap designed to stimulate the young male
adolescent. Maybe Joss needs to start thinking of making
some serious money creating a series of Buffy movies with
the current cast(they would certainly be much better than
the original, which, IMHO, was a piece of junk). This could
include characters such as Faith, which at least would give
Eliza the money she craves plus a viable art form to be a
prt of.
[>
So we're not imagining things!!!! (not that it would
matter.) -- yuri, 18:07:12 05/10/02 Fri
Willow, Tara &
Amy - a tale of three witches (spoiler to SR, long!) --
shadowkat,
11:46:28 05/10/02 Fri
Willlow, Tara, and Amy – the tale of three witches
Quotes from Psyche Transcripts. (Spoilers for Seeing
Red..)
Fifteen years ago, while I was at Colorado College, studying
myth, folklore and English lit, a coven of Wiccans came to
speak with us. People came expecting fortune telling and
tarot card readings and were sadly disappointed. Men and
Women from the coven explained that Wicca is a religion that
celebrates the earth and unlike the more patriarchal
religions, is interested in the reaffirmation of life and
the natural balance of all things. In Wicca you obtain
power from mother earth and return it back to her. Whatever
you take must be returned. When we die we return to the
earth and she brings us forth in a new form. We are all a
part of her and she is part of us. The moon and the earth
and tides are intricately connected and create a positive
energy matrix in which we can all draw strength. Negative
energy throws it out of wack, causes chaos, which we see in
the form of tornados, violent storms and volcanoes. You must
respect the mother and trust her to provide. You must
respect the boundaries, because if you ignore them, push
them or twist them to your own ends, you reap the results.
Tara is Wiccan. She represents the earth and all it
provides. She is mother, lover, and friend. She accepts
without judgment. She leaves when raped, but can provide
forgive when atonement is made. Of the Scoobies – Tara has
ascended to the realm of adulthood. She is a complete
personality. Mature. Forgiving. Able to deal to handle her
world with respect and trust, which was probably why she
like Buffy in The Gift, was killed. In the Buffyverse –
ascension tends to lead to the afterlife.
When we first meet Tara – she is uncertain, stuttering, shy.
But when she uses magic, it is white and pure and usually
gentle. Only once does she misuse it and this in reaction to
the prejudice and disdain her family shows her. Her family
represents the cruel unbending judgment of the patriarchal
world, where everything is black and white, the harsh world
of the sun. Women must be kept in line. Magic is wrong. As
her father, Mr. Maclay states in FAMILY(Season 5, Btvs):
“You can't control what's going to happen. You have evil
inside of you and it will come out. And letting yourself
work all this magic is only going to make it worse. Where do
you think that power comes from?”
It’s fitting that Tara’s family calls Tara a demon and
considers her magic “evil”. Demon’s come from the earth –
Riley and the Initiative even categorize them as “subterrean
creatures” or earth dwellers. And as such, they are below
us, beasts of burden that should be used or killed. Tara’s
family decides that her use of magic, her ability to tap
into the power of the earth, makes her their beast of
burden, an animal that must be kept in line.
We do not deal well with people who use unfamiliar
techniques to heal others or practice religious rites that
contrast with our own. In the early part of our country’s
history, we burned witches at the stake, because we saw them
as evil. Paganism is still considered by many to be the same
as devil worship. If you practice magic or do something
outside of what is considered “acceptable behavior” you are
demonized. Tara has been demonized by her family and peers
her whole life for her beliefs and her sexual orientation.
Tara: "I thought maybe we could do a spell - make people
talk again. I'I'd seen you in the group, the wicca group you
were... you were different than them. I mean they didn't
seem to know..."
Willow: "What they were talking about."
Tara: "I think if they saw a witch they would run the other
way."
She smiles and laughs. (HUSH , Season 4, BTvs)
Tara knows all about hiding. Her whole life she has had to
hide. Her religious practices and her practice of magic.
When she first meets Willow, she is desperately trying to
find a place to belong. She stutters and she is shy. As
Tara’s brother Donny tells her upon being introduced to her
friends: “What, uh, all of you hang out? Wow. That's more
people than you met in high school.” Just prior to that
scene, Tara had attempted to tell her new friends a joke and
was rejected, they didn’t get it.
GILES: Yes, uh, we'll, we'll, uh, find her weaknesses, and
then, uh-
TARA: Yeah. You learn her source, (grins) and, uh, we'll
introduce her to her insect reflection. (Everyone looks at
her in confusion. Tara stops smiling.) Um ... that, that was
funny if you, um, studied Taglarin mythic rites... (softly)
and are a complete dork. (FAMILY)
We meet her family and realize that not only has she felt
the need to hide her magic, she’s also felt that she has to
hide being a demon. She’s not a demon of course, but her
family believes she is. And so she believes it too. How
often do we accept someone else’s interpretation of who we
are as the true one? In Tara’s case, her father, whom she
trusted, had an ulterior motive for labeling her a demon. As
Spike states, after he proves that Tara is human, “There's
no demon in there. That's just a family legend, am I right?
(Mr. Maclay looks angry) Just a bit of spin to keep the
ladies in line.” (FAMILY, Season 4, Btvs.)
Willow’s problem is somewhat different from Tara’s. They are
alike in the sense that they have both been cruelly rejected
by peers. Willow was treated as the nerdy geek, constantly
pushed aside. Cruel comments such as Cordelia’s “nice to see
you’ve found the softer side of Sears” seem to be the rule
until Willow meets Buffy and begins to blossom into her own.
No longer taking the views of her peers as gospel. But the
pain is still there, deeply imbedded inside her. It is in
reaction to this pain that Willow turns to magic, while Tara
has been practicing all along.
Tara’s use of magic has to do with her love of her mother.
Her mother used magic and taught Tara how as well. When she
practices, Tara feels a connection to her mother and to her
mother’s beliefs. To Tara – magic is a reaffirmation of life
and the love she feels for her mother.
Willow: "How long have you been practicing?"
Tara: "Always, I mean, since I um, was little... my, my mom
used to,
She um, she had a lot of power, like you." (HUSH, Season 4,
Btvs)
Interesting what Tara says to Willow – her mother had
natural ability. The power was there bubbling beneath the
surface. Willow – Tara senses also has natural ability. The
ability attracts Tara – partly because it reminds her of her
mother, it also frightens her.
WILLOW: S-O-R-T of. (Tara frowns) I mean, I just feel like
the-the junior partner. You've been doing everything longer
than me. You've been out longer ... you've been practicing
witchcraft way longer.
TARA: Oh, but you're way beyond me there! In just a few- I
mean ... it frightens me how powerful you're getting.
WILLOW: (frowns) That's a weird word.
TARA: (nervous smile) "Getting"?
WILLOW: It frightens you? *I* frighten you? (Tough Love,
Season 5, Btvs.)
We don’t know how Tara’s mother died, just that she was sick
for a long time and finally it ended. But I have always
wondered if magic had something to do with it, particularly
based on her father’s words. “Demon. The women in our
family... have demon in them. Her mother had it. That's
where the magic comes from.”
But Tara’s relationship with her family and with her mother
is very different from Willow’s. If Tara learned magic as a
means of becoming closer to her mother and honoring her
mother’s memory, Willow learned it as a means of garnering
her absentee parents affections. In the beginning, magic was
Willow’s way of rebelling. Against her mother, against her
friends, against her world, while for Tara – magic was way
she melded with her world, celebrated it, loved it.
Willow: (stands up) No, Ma, hear this! I'm a rebel! I'm
having a rebellion!
Sheila: (smiling) Willow, honey, you don't need to act out
like this to prove your specialness.
Willow: Mom, I'm not acting out. I'm a witch! I-I can make
pencils float. And I can summon the four elements. Okay,
two, but four soon. (her mother doesn't react) A-and I'm
dating a musician. (Gingerbread, Btvs Season 3)
Compare this with Tara who tells Willow that she was
practicing magic with her mother. Tara received affection
through magic. Even with Willow – magic is a source of love.
When they first join hands and combine their talents it is
as if they are making love for the first time. Tara’s magic
comes from acceptance, confidence, love and kindness.
Willow’s comes from pain, rejection, fear, and uncertainty.
In Dopplegangland – Willow reacts to rejection she perceives
from friends and teachers by practicing dark magic with
Anya. As a result, she accidentally brings EvilWillow back
from an Alternate Universe. In Something Blue – Willow casts
a dangerous spell to help her get past the pain of OZ
leaving her and places all of her friends in jeopardy as a
result. For Willow – magic is a drug that she can use to
make herself feel better to alter the world to her liking.
To Tara, magic is a religion, a way of communing with the
earth.
WILLOW: (to Tara) Then what? This isn't something that's
gonna be fixed by a video club. I know I messed up, okay,
and ... I wanna fix it.
TARA: I can't believe that we are talking about this again.
You know how powerful magic is, how dangerous. You could
hurt someone, you ... you could hurt yourself.
WILLOW: (shaking head) I know a spell that will make her
forget she was ever in heaven.
TARA: (angrily) God, what is wrong with you?! (Tabula Rasa,
Season 6 Btvs.)
Another difference between Willow and Tara, Willow believes
magic can fix everything including their relationship. Giles
and Tara both assumed that Willow’s power came from a deep
respect for the natural forces. It doesn’t. Tara’s power
comes from that because she was taught to respect those
forces. Tara is Wiccan. Willow only joined a Wiccan group in
college to learn spells. The meetings bore her. Even Oz,
before he leaves, cautions Willow about her increased
dependence on magic. He senses that it comes from a dark
place inside her just like his power does. “I know what it’s
like to have power you can’t control. I mean, every time I
start to wolf out, I touch something –deep – dark. It’s not
fun..” (FEAR ITSELF, Season 4, Btvs) Tara doesn’t start to
sense this until much later and Giles doesn’t appear to
sense it at all. Perhaps that’s part of the problem, Giles,
Willow’s mentor, never really took magic that seriously,
when he is stripped of his memory, he calls it chicanary and
balderdash in Tabula Rasa. Oh don’t get me wrong - he has a
respect for it, but not a deep one. And this view, he may
have inadvertently passed on to Willow, who whether Giles
likes it or not has adopted him as her role model and father
figure to replace the ones that ignore her.
If Willow believes magic can solve everything – a belief
that has been reinforced over five seasons, is it any wonder
she attempts to use it to solve her problems with Tara? Yes
– what she does to Tara is wrong. But in Willow’s head –
she’s just fixing things. Like she did way back in Season 3
when she helped Buffy and the others fight the mayor, or
like she did in Season 4 when she joined their essences with
Buffy to fight Adam or like she does in Season 5, by
entering Buffy’s brain to snap her out of her catatonic
state. How, Willow wonders, is this really any different?
It’s not “rape” to Willow, it is controlling the situation,
fixing it, so that things work out the way she wants them
to.
WILLOW: Violate you? I ... I-I didn't ... mean anything like
that, I-I, I just wanted us not to fight any more. I love
you.
TARA: If you don't wanna fight, you don't fight. You don't
use magic to make a fight disappear.
Willow doesn’t realize that she’s violating more than Tara’s
mind here, she’s violating her trust. Tara trusted Willow
not to hurt her the way Glory did. But Willow did and as a
result, Tara leaves no longer able to trust Willow. Their
love was built on trust – without it there is nothing. But
it’s not just Tara’s trust Willow breaks when she uses
magic, she also breaks the trust her world of the sacred
order of the universe, she breaks the trust of the earth
from which she pulls her power from and as a result her
power is dark and consuming not light and healing like
Tara’s.
Enter Amy the rat. Poor Amy – she is also the product of bad
parenting and neglect. In the third episode of Btvs, Witch,
we are introduced to Amy and her mother Catherine Madison.
Catherine is a bit like Willow is now. She uses magic to
twist the world into the version she wishes to experience.
In Catherine’s case that is reliving her glory days as a
high school cheerleader. She goes to extremes to accomplish
this, including switching bodies with her daughter,
mutilating the other cheerleading candidates and almost
killing Buffy. Catherine believes she’s justified that she
desires a second go. As she tells Amy: “How dare you raise
your hand to your mother! I gave you birth. I gave up my
life so you could drag that worthless carcass around and
call it living?” Poor Amy – her mother rejected her in the
worst way possible – is it any wonder Amy begins to go down
the same path? Amy like Willow starts using magic to make
her world work for her. But instead of accessing the power
of the earth, she accesses the power of the hellmouth, of
darkness, just as her mother did before her. Magic
eventually becomes Amy’s drug – she goes after more and more
of it, until she messes up on a spell and turns herself into
a rat. It’s not until three years later that Willow is able
to undo it. Something Amy resents her for. This is made
clear when Amy visits Willow in Double Meat Palace. In this
episode, Amy has given a recovering Willow a taste of magic.
Willow furious with Amy for doing this tells her never to
visit her again.
WILLOW: You don't get it. What you did to me was wrong. Do
you have any idea how much harder that makes, just,
everything?
AMY: You know what I notice? You're not denying that you had
fun.
WILLOW: Shut up.
AMY: Oh, yeah. Sharp argument you got there. Were you on the
debate team? I forget. I forgot a lot while you were failing
to make me be not a rat. (DMP, Btvs Season 6)
If Tara represents Willow’s light side and the ways magic
can be used to heal the world. Amy represents her dark side
or the ways that magic should not be used. Amy uses magic to
make herself feel better just as her mother used it before
her. In Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered, Season 2 Btvs,
Xander discovers Amy using magic to lie to the teacher about
her homework. He blackmails her with this knowledge, causing
her to cast a very dangerous love spell which causes every
woman Xander meets to fall madly in love with him. The next
time we see Amy is in Gingerbread where she and Willow are
almost burned at the stake for practicing magic. At this
point their spells are harmless incantations used to protect
those that they love. But it is in this episode that Amy
turns herself into a rat. Now three years later, de-ratted
Amy, visits a magic den, steals sage from the Summers house
and attempts to pull Willow into her addiction. Magic is
fun, a trip to Disneyland – Amy tells Willow. “You're
telling me that you didn't have a genuine blast? Come on,
that was a sweet spell. That was like a trip to Disneyland
without the lines.” (Doublemeat Palace).
But magic is not just a drug to Willow. Magic is a little
bit more. As Willow tells Buffy in Wrecked:
WILLOW: I mean ... if you could be ... you know, plain old
Willow or super Willow, who would you be? (looks at Buffy) I
guess you don't actually have an option on the whole super
thing.
BUFFY: Will, there's nothing wrong with you. You don't need
magic to be special.
WILLOW: Don't I? I mean, Buffy, who was I? Just ... some
girl. Tara didn't even know that girl. (Wrecked, Season 6,
Btvs.)
As far back as Becoming Part II, Season 2 Btvs, Willow has
relied on magic to help the team. She believes that it makes
her important. A superhero. She can wreck vengeance. Kill
the bad guy. Without magic, she’s just that geeky nerd who
found the softer side of Sears. A nerd that no one in their
right mind could ever love. What does she say in Doomed,
after OZ has left – “Percy called me a nerd. I’m not a nerd
anymore. I dated a musician.” How does Amy get her to go out
and wreck havoc on the Bronze in Smashed?
“Maybe ... you'd rather sit home all night, alone, like in
high school.” Willow doesn’t use magic as a drug, she uses
it to hide the person she hates inside. She uses it to wreck
vengeance on those who hurt who she loves – such as Glory in
Tough Love. I always found the scene in Tough Love to be
very frightening. After Tara gets brain-sucked by Glory,
against everyone’s advice, Willow goes after the hell god.
She actually manages to inflict pain on Glory – which Buffy
later comments on in The Gift. “Will, you're the only person
that's ever hurt Glory. At all. You're my best shot at
getting her on the ropes…”
And Willow’s magic didn’t stop there – when we return to
Btvs in Season 6, Willow is running the SG. She is in
telepathic communication with all of them. She is also
working on a spell to raise Buffy from the dead. This is way
past stealing sage or visiting the local Warlock for a
energy fix. Willow has delved into the darkest magic and she
has found a way to bend it to her whim, use it to make the
world work the way she wants it to. Tara was right to be
frightened. The power lodged inside Willow is not connected
to the earth or from the same source as Tara’s, it runs
counter to it. It resides in chaos, from the hell mouth
Willow has lived near her entire life. Willow’s power is not
like Buffy’s , a gift from the Powers That Be, nor is it a
celebration of Wicca. It is dark and it howls deep inside
her. The only thing that has kept her power in check up to
this point may have been Tara.
If Amy is the dark, mischievous side of Willow’s
personality, Tara is the light. Tara is Willow’s spirit,
what keeps her grounded. Without Tara, Willow would be lost.
And that is not a good thing. When we grow up – we have to
learn how to deal with the world and all its challenges. We
can’t rely on outside sources like partners or magic to
handle our reality or hide from ourselves. Tara left Willow
because she correctly saw Willow relying on her as a crutch.
She may have returned to Willow too soon, but as she states
in Entropy, she missed Willow and just didn’t want to spend
all the time trying to build it all up again. She wanted to
skip over that stage. She wanted to move on. But Willow
hadn’t changed, not really. She hadn’t learned that magic
isn’t the way to handle emotional strife or deal with
emotional issues. You have to handle them the hard way by
going through them.
Willow: I just can't stand feeling this way. I want it to be
over.
Buffy: It will. I promise. But it's gonna take time.
Willow: Well, that's not good enough.
Buffy: I know. It's just how it is. You have to go through
the pain.
Willow: Well, isn't there someway I can just make it go
away? Just ‘cause I say so? Can't I just make it go ‘poof'?
(Something Blue, Season 4, btvs)
Therein lies the difference between our three witches. Tara
pushes herself through the pain, she returns to Willow
eventually, but she doesn’t use magic to control the
relationship or handle her pain. Amy uses magic like a drug
to deal with pain, to deal with the changes in her world, to
have fun. And Willow? She uses magic to make the pain go
poof. Her solution to problems is to wave a magic wand and
make them disappear. That as Tara has mentioned on more than
one occasion isn’t what magic is for.
But Willow hasn’t learned that yet – she still believes she
can make the pain go poof, that she can bend reality to her
will, that she can hide. As a result, her magic unlike
Tara’s will always reside in darkness and will always cause
misery and pain most of all to Willow herself. Wiccans
believe that the pain you send out comes back to you three-
fold, hence – Amy being turned into a rat after casting her
dangerous spells. Catherine, Amy’s mother, was sucked into
the dark heart of her own trophy while trying to kill Buffy.
One can only hope a similar fate does not await Willow due
to her desire to make pain go poof.
Thanks for reading. Feedback appreciated as always.
:- ) Shadowkat
[>
Wow...Great post! -- Belladonna, 12:54:05
05/10/02 Fri
[>
Great Analysis! -- DickBD, 13:07:44 05/10/02
Fri
But I'll be that coven of wiccans that came to talk with you
was like the group where Tara and Willow met!
[>
worshiping at the alter of Shadowkat's
genius....KABOOM! -- Kitt, 13:20:39 05/10/02 Fri
[>
Re: a tale of three witches and two quibbles, but no
spoliers... -- redcat, 13:21:48 05/10/02 Fri
Another wonder post, shadowkat!! Sometimes its like you’re
inside my head. I’m working on
an essay about the way the “threes” (triads, trios, triple
deaths) have been working lately in the
series and your post has really spurred me on. However, I
have two quite minor quibbles and one disagreement.
The first quibble is your comment that for Wiccans, the
balance inherent in the earth energy means
that “The moon and the earth and tides are intricately
connected and create a positive energy
matrix in which we can all draw strength. Negative energy
throws it out of wack, causes
chaos, which we see in the form of tornados, violent storms
and volcanoes. “
I’ve been a Wiccan for about thirty years and have never
heard any witch express the idea that natural
earth forces like storms, volcanoes or tornadoes are
expressions of “negative” energy. Their
EFFECT on humans, often experienced as tragedy or loss, may
very well be seen as the
karmic response to our own need for lessons, or as part of
the principle that one gets back
three times the negative and positive energy one puts out.
The storms and volcanoes
themselves, however, are made of wind and rain, fire and
earth, time and history, sacred and
secular processes. They are neither “good” nor “evil.”
They simply are, expressions of the
balance, part of the process, cleansing, revealing,
rejuvenating, creating. I say this as
someone who lives on a live volcano on an island in the
middle of the Pacific, and who has
been through two class 5 hurricanes (!!! this is HUGE,
people. Andrew in Florida was a class
4...) in the last twenty years, as well as tropical storms
that can drop as much as 31 inches of
rain in 30 hours. This is why Wiccans are such good
dancers. We remember that we might
have to dance in a raging wind storm while the lava flows
down the mountain all around us. :)
Second minor quibble: you said: “In the early part of our
country’’s history, we burned witches
at the stake....“
I’m assuming you’re American. If so, please do a quick
check on your history. No on was ever
burned at the stake in the British American colonies or
later during the American national
period. During the Salem “Witch” trials of 1692/3 to which
you most likely refer, nineteen
people were hanged by the neck until dead, one was pressed
to death and at least two died in
prison awaiting trial or hanging. Persons accused of
witchcraft or heresy were hanged in
England (the parent country of American law), burned in
Scotland, drowned in Ireland, burned
in parts of France, the Basque region of Spain, and in most
of Germany, but also were hanged
in other parts of France and Germany, tortured publically
without burning in at least several
celebrated cases in both countries, and generally were
strangled (considered
“compassionate”) in non-Basque Spain. The Netherlands and
the seven cantons of
Switzerland also present complicated regional cases, with
variations across both time and
space. (Geez, sorry for the lecture, but hey, I used to
teach this stuff, and old habits die
hard... )
As for the more serious issue I respectfully disagree with
you that Willow's power is pulled from a different source
than Tara's, because, for me, the earth energy that I see
both of their powers coming from contains within itself all
light and all shadow, all clear and all dark, all life and
all deeath, all yin and all yang. But I do agree
completely that Willow's APPROACH to the power comes from a
different place than Tara's, and the rest of your analysis
is SO RIGHT ON, that even tho I disagree with you about the
source concept, you've made me think through it in order to
clarify why I disagree, and that's the gift of great writing
and analysis.
Thank you for all the work, here and in other posts. I
always really enjoy reading your take on the show.
redcat
[> [>
Re: a tale of three witches and two quibbles, but no
spoliers... -- shadowkat, 13:31:55 05/10/02 Fri
Well you caught me...apologize for the bad
tornado/volcano
metaphor - had a feeling someone would call me on that.
It's been a while since I studied the salem witch trials -
so was sort of trying for the Gingerbread
metaphor...last
time looked into it was well...twenty years ago. So
thanks
for the info. ;-)
Not sure about Willow though - her magic spiraled much
quicker than Tara's and as someone pointed out elsewhere -
she's the only one who isn't a natural born witch. Her power
really started with the Becoming PArt II spell which was a
curse. So i think I'll stick to my Willow arguement
for now.
Thanks for your response though - it was wonderful!
[> [> [>
Oh dear, I'm up to 3 quibbles and 2
considerations... -- redcat, 15:32:55 05/10/02
Fri
Aloha, shadowkat -
Well, you’ve certainly pushed me to think about this source-
of-power issue. You say in your
original post, “The power lodged inside Willow is not
connected to the earth or from the same
source as Tara’s, it runs counter to it. It resides in
chaos, from the hell mouth Willow has lived
near her entire life. Willow’s power is not like Buffy’s , a
gift from the Powers That Be, nor is it a
celebration of Wicca. It is dark and it howls deep inside
her [dear goddess, I love the way you
write, even when I disagree with you]. The only thing that
has kept her power in check up to this
point may have been Tara.” You follow this in the second
post with the argument that Willow is
not a “natural born” witch, that her powers really start
with the curse she performs in Becoming,
Part II, and that they have spiraled much more quickly than
Tara’s [with which, by the way, I
absolutely agree].
Hmmm.....
Some points to consider:
1) Do we, in fact, know that Willow is not a “natural-born”
witch? We don’t know what her
lineage is; her mother’s lack of witch-sense is no
indication that if we went back a generation or
two, some red-haired, Russian-Yiddish-German healer-witch-
midwife hasn’t passed on some
innate ability to connect with the unseen powers to our girl
(all hail the evolutionary biologists in
the crowd ;). On the other hand, does it matter whether she
is or not? Within Wiccan culture and
community, and certainly within many Wiccans’ understandings
of ‘how things work,’ the fact
that many a powerful practitioner does not come from any
long line of “natural-born” witches, but
from long lines of farm wives and fish merchants, would
suggest that this is not important either
within Wicca or ME’s use of Wicca within the metaphorical
frame of the story.
2) The curse Willow performs in Becoming, Part II, is done
for a positive reason. Willow should
still have to pay the (triple) price for performing such a
curse, but her cost should reflect her
intentions. [side-note: I’m not sure whether or when Willow
ever does have to deal with her
action in this case. Any ideas?] For a good example of
this, albeit in a case where a fictional
woman uses an extremely negative curse to actually hurt
someone, but does so for the good of
the women and others in her community, see the film
“Antonia’s Line,” wherein the matriarch
curses the village rapist, but then becomes ill and quickly
thereafter dies herself, at least partly
from the energy drain it took for her to do the curse and
partly because the powers ALWAYS
make you pay the price -- usually with a pretty hefty tax
(gift with purchase?) on top.
3) I think about Tara’s statement from the scene in
“Forever,” when she tells Dawn, and by
extension Willow, that “witches can't be allowed to alter
the fabric of life for selfish reasons.
Wiccans took an oath a long time ago to honor that.” She is
not denying that the dark force -
which she calls the power of life and death - is something
Wiccans can’t access, she’s merely
stating that, historically and in most cases, they choose
not to. The dark, chaotic force on which
Willow increasingly draws is available to all Wiccans, all
witches, all people, because it exists and
is part of the balance of energy and power of the “IS” -
whatever you want to call that (it goes by
600,000 names in the Native Hawaiian pantheon of gods and
goddesses, by 1,000 names in the
contemporary American neo-pagan movement, by uncountable
names in cultures ancient and
living...) Tara chooses not to access the dark side of the
power very often, but she collaborates
with Willow to raise Buffy from the dead. And if she’s like
most Wiccans, she honors the dark
side, her own dark shadow, and the necessary power of death
and decay on every Samhain
(Halloween) and Winter’s Solstice eve.
4) If Willow’s power is from some place other than the site
of both Tara’s and Buffy’s power,
then please expand on where it comes from? I know this is
probably way off topic from where
you thought this essay was going, but it seems to me that a
portion of your claim here rests on a
re-reading of the canon. The hell-mouth is, after all,
clearly located in the very flesh of The
Mother, nestled deep inside her own bones. The
extraordinarily well-visualized relationship
between the powers of light and dark is a major part of what
has always drawn me to the show. I
think especially after the first season, Joss and ME have
rally been taking us on an exploration of
that link. Are you suggesting a new theology of the
Buffyverse? If so, please flesh it out for me
(no pun intended).
5) I still think that the main thrust of your analysis is
absolutely brilliant and I agree with you
whole-heartedly on the ways in which the three witches
approach and use their powers. I hope
you realize that I’m only responding at such length because
I really value your thoughts and
insights – your posts are worth reading carefully and
thoughtfully, and inspire what I hope you
read as respectful, intrigued and intellectually-excited
comradeship.
ke welina,
redcat
[> [> [> [>
Amazing response! Thank you...now I'm thinking --
shadowkat, 19:45:57 05/10/02 Fri
Author: shadowkat
Subject: Thank you so much for this! Excellent quibbles!
Wow! Well now you have me thinking...must say this baby was
hard to write, because I have gone a little over my own
head
on some of it. But your analysis does enrich it.
1.O"n the other hand, does it matter whether she is or not?
Within Wiccan culture and
community, and certainly within many Wiccans’ understandings
of ‘how things work,’ the fact
that many a powerful practitioner does not come from any
long line of “natural-born” witches, but
from long lines of farm wives and fish merchants, would
suggest that this is not important either
within Wicca or ME’s use of Wicca within the metaphorical
frame of the story"
On point one - I didn't think it was important at first, but
a lot of people have mentioned how it odd it was that
Willow's magic grew so quickly with no training, while Amy
and Tara had apparently been practicing for years. Tara even
mentions how much further Willow is than her in response to
Willow's comment that Tara has more experience and training.
It's also important to note that the council asks if they
are even registered. So my question is - does Willow's magic
have a dark source? Or is it the way she uses it giving it
that taint? From what I remember of druid
rites (I actually studied the ancient druid/Celt religion
more than the Wiccan one - while the two have similarities
they are very different in some respects.), it's how you
use
the magic not so much where it comes from that is important
- because it comes from the same source - the earth. The
druids and ancients really didn't split stuff
into black and white like the Christians did. Their religion
also wasn't linear. They believed in cycles. It wasn't good
and evil so much as order and chaos and balance.
So - that said, I think the problem with Willow's power may
be balance as opposed to source. If she had been trained
like Tara she may have been able to find that balance - but
she's so chaotic inside so her power reflects what is inside
her - red and chaotic. (Actually I think that may be the
problem with the interpretations of all the characters -
it's not good vs. evil so much as it is striving for balance
between the two and calm...because as you so aptly pointed
out in your previous response - we need the hurricanes as
much as we need the sunrise, both are necessary in our
world.
Sorry I sort of rambled there - let's see, it's only
important that she isn't natural to the extent that she
doesn't understand or know how to control the chaotic energy
within her. This is clearly shown in Fear Itself - when she
angrily creates a location spell without thinking it through
first or determining the purpose.
2. "The curse Willow performs in Becoming, Part II, is done
for a positive reason. Willow should
still have to pay the (triple) price for performing such a
curse, but her cost should reflect her
intentions. [side-note: I’m not sure whether or when Willow
ever does have to deal with her
action in this case. Any ideas?]" I was discussing this
with
cjl tonight - and we wondered about that. She didn't intend
it as a curse - like Jenny's family did, but the spell
itself was a vengeance spell - so is the intent
important?
ME seems to like the whole "road to hell is pathed in
good
intents" idea. By deciding to do that sort of spell while in
a weakened state - did Willow grab hold of something
that
she couldn't control? Giles mentions how dangerous the
spell
is on more than one occassion and oddly does not attempt it
himself. I'm not sure...but I remember her eyes glowing red
when it took hold and her voice changed speaking a language
she didn't know. Also it's interesting that a good majority
of her major spells since that time - have tended towards
the dark side. Willow even states on more than one occassion
that she "likes the dark magics". Was Becoming the
beginning of that arc? cjl suggested to me tonight that
maybe Willow would never have become a witch if Jenny
Calendar had lived?
3." The dark, chaotic force on which
Willow increasingly draws is available to all Wiccans, all
witches, all people, because it exists and
is part of the balance of energy and power of the “IS” -
whatever you want to call that (it goes by
600,000 names in the Native Hawaiian pantheon of gods and
goddesses, by 1,000 names in the
contemporary American neo-pagan movement, by uncountable
names in cultures ancient and
living...) Tara chooses not to access the dark side of the
power very often, but she collaborates
with Willow to raise Buffy from the dead. And if she’s like
most Wiccans, she honors the dark
side, her own dark shadow, and the necessary power of death
and decay on every Samhain
(Halloween) and Winter’s Solstice eve. "
I agree with your points about tara. I think she does honor
the shadow side of magic. It goes back to the view of
balance - a major theme this season. We see so many
characters struggling for it. In fact Tara is the only
character who appears to be in balance. All the other
characters aren't. It's been suggested that Dawn (the key)
is causing them to be out of wack. But I'm wondering if
this
is just a natural state of growing up. Seeking balance?
Yes - we have to honor both death and life, light and
darkness to be able to walk in the world. I think Tara sees
that. As demonstrated by her acceptance of what Buffy
told
her in DT. In Bargaining she agrees to help - but as she
puts it - it's not the same as raising Joyce from the grave,
Buffy was killed by mystical energy not natural causes and
that counts as an exception in her mind. I wonder
if she would have done it if Buffy had died of a gunshot
wound?
4."If Willow’s power is from some place other than the site
of both Tara’s and Buffy’s power,
then please expand on where it comes from? I know this is
probably way off topic from where
you thought this essay was going, but it seems to me that a
portion of your claim here rests on a
re-reading of the canon. The hell-mouth is, after all,
clearly located in the very flesh of The
Mother, nestled deep inside her own bones. The
extraordinarily well-visualized relationship
between the powers of light and dark is a major part of what
has always drawn me to the show. I
think especially after the first season, Joss and ME have
rally been taking us on an exploration of
that link. Are you suggesting a new theology of the
Buffyverse? If so, please flesh it out for me
(no pun intended). "
No - not suggesting a new theology. I guess in my mind, I
considered the hellmouth as separate from the mother not a
natural source. But you are absolutely right - if we go back
to the first episode of the series, Welcome to the Hellmouth
- it is most definitely part of the earth. After all Giles
says the world was made for demons first, they were the
first inhabitants, driven beneath the ground when humans
arrived or evolved. And they yearned to take back their
kingdom and have chaos reign once more.
Therefore - maybe a better way of putting it would be to say
that Willow's power comes from chaos - or the dark part of
the earth - the hellmouth. While Buffy's comes from the sky
- the PTB? No - doesn't work - she has darkness in her
too, the first slayer represented that. How about -
Buffy's
power is balanced between earth and sky - it's order.
Tara's
is also balanced. Willow's derives from the same source
that
Spike and Anya's comes from the emotional underbelly of
chaos. Or the howl of the wolves? OZ certainly saw it as a
darkness in Willow - since he had one as well - it was I
think part of the reason they were attracted to each other -
both had a chaotic beast inside them struggling to break
free?
Just some late night ramblings. Hope they made sense. I
really love your responses to my posts redcat - they make
me
think. (Particularly on this topic - since it hooks into
this novel I'm revising..;-) ) BTW - what have you come up
with on that Innanna myth? I'm unfortunately unfamilar with
Polyesian mythology and would love to hear it. Yep, i'm
a myth/folklore addict at heart.
best shadowkat
[> [> [> [> [>
hey, I’m supposed to be grading final exams!
but this is just too delicious... -- redcat, 01:27:16
05/11/02 Sat
to stop yet. We agree on so much and I find some of the
developing insights really fabulous. I
think we are actually thinking along very, very similar
lines about these issues. As you
note, the real question is not about the source of power,
but rather HOW the characters go
about doing what they do and WHY -- what has brought them to
the place where they use that
particular portion of the available power spectrum? I think
this discussion is helping us both
clarify our thoughts and find new ways of writing about them
– which is totally cool and
exciting, so thanks! Any one else want to join in?
I especially like the way your last post talks about the
notion that Tara has been taught the
proper ways to approach the power and how to control it
within herself, while Willow has not.
Traditionally, that training comes from an elder relative or
mentor, both in many indigenous
cultures and in western pre-christian and christian europe.
But without that training (including
a required course on ethics and usually some sense of
protocol) Willow is like an amazingly
talented but dangerous orphan, the type of cultural
“outsider” who (as in so many myths and
legends) can send the balance out of whack without really
realizing that they are doing it. The
control of young adepts like this is at least part of the
rationale behind many of the “rules”
passed down in lineage-based traditions. Paying attention
to the rules keeps you alive long
enough to learn the wisdom behind them on your own. (These
same rules are also often
reflected in modern, generally syncretic neo-pagan
practices, at least in America, and in fairy
tales like “The Sorcerer’s Apprentice.”) They “work” as
rules because they’re based on the
wisdom of long-term practitioners, i.e., 1) if you fuck up
because you’re being selfish or
impatient or arrogant, it WILL come back to bite you in the
ass, and 2) it will do so in perfect
triple proportion to your own fuck-uped-ness, and 3) not
being well-trained is not an adequate
excuse for doing poorly in the test of life, since the rules
themselves are always your greatest
teachers.
And I, too, have always been surprised that Giles didn’t
step up to the plate on this one,
especially after the death of Jenny Calendar. But I think
our favorite red-head would have
become a witch one way or the other. She is drawn to it,
both the dark and the light. (Excellent
insights in your post about Oz and the dark aspects they
share, BTW.) Willow will have to heal
her inner wounds, and probably do that at the same time that
she will have to become
humbled in her approach to her gift (especially if ME stays
true to angsty form), and especially
if she is ever going to understand the true nature of her
power. She has always had the
potential to live deeply in both the light and dark
simultaneously, as the most powerful witches
(and Slayers) can. As you say, “Willow even states on more
than one occasion that she "likes
the dark magics.” My favorite example is her standing on
the roof of of City Hall (“Choices”)
with Buffy and Angel after she has successfully removed the
protection spell from the mayor’s
big box of hairy critters with a spell of her own. She says
with great glee and satisfaction, “I’m
bad!” The scene is funny because our lovely young Willow is
rarely naughty, so that on the
surface we intellectually see the irony of her statement and
emotionally feel the pathos of her
insecurities and struggles as she says it. But underneath
that surface, and only because Joss
is both God and evil ;) three seasons later we look
back and go, “how could we not have
seen it coming??!!” when her eyes go all red for real. Then
finally, if we’re REALLY careful,
we fast-forward to the end of that same ep and see Willow
make an impassioned argument for
using witchcraft on the “good” side. “It’s a good fight,
Buffy, and I want in,” she proclaims, and
at that moment, we want to believe her, having conveniently
forgotten the rest of what she
wants “in” on. Sigh... Such is the power of the
narrative...
You also ask if Tara would have helped with the resurrection
spell in Bargaining “if Buffy had
died of a gunshot wound?” Excellent question! I don’t
know, but I doubt if she would have
been so willing to go along with it. She didn’t try to
raise her mother or help Dawn raise Joyce,
so I suspect not.
Reading your responses and then going back to read your
original post [what a delight, even
the third time around] makes me need to say, once again,
that your sense of things often
makes me take that "aha!" breath. It is fairly late at
night now as I write this, and thinking all
this through has taken me to a rather interesting place,
filled with powerful images. Sometimes
I think better in metaphor, image, geo-graphic/-logic/-
spatial terms than in linear ones, so
please bear with me on this. Anyway, I offer this image to
you and the rest of the board as a
sort of nightcap, and hope that it might be a useful way to
think about the difference between
the source of power that includes both light and dark, and
the differing ways Tara, Willow and
Amy (and Buffy?) approach, access, use, understand (insert
appropriate verb here) different
aspects of that power:
Imagine a strong, clear bright energy, surrounding you
equally on all sides, available to you
equally at all angles, shining from an ever-present source.
Each person is sort of a set of
lenses through which that energy can be focused, kind of
like a kaleidoscope but without the
repetitive patterns. (..wait, maybe WITH the repetitive
patterns? Most people I know, me
included, tend to repeat each and every pattern of our
parents that we explicitly told ourselves
at age 16 we would NEVER repeat...) Anyway, which lens we
choose to focus the energy
though will determine what part (what ray) of the energy we
“see” and can use. Willow’s lens
is red and black now, chaotic and disconnected, like a
wounded animal’s. She is refracting
power from the darkest side of the spectrum, through a lens
she has used (perhaps too
often?) before. But the problem with BEING the lens is that
lenses can crack. They can
shatter and disappear into dust (like Sam’s South American
shamans), lenses can shiver into
nothingness under too much pressure. And both pure good and
pure evil can cause lots of
pressure. Both saints and dark witches tend to go crazy,
but one from ecstacy and the other
from despair. Crazy-from-ecstasy can result in great poetry
(and, one assumes, an e-ticket
ride to heaven) while crazy-from-despair seems to lead to
other, not-so-pleasant things and
possibly long lines somewhere very disagreeable. I hope my
favorite motherless young witch
will be able to grow up soon and I wish that could happen
without too much of the pain I see
coming for her. But we get that grace far too rarely, so I
will chant (metaphorical) prayers for
her and her world, and for her pain, and for the pain she
seems set on causing her world
because of it.
Then I will go to sleep. Honest.
[> [> [> [> [> [>
Re: hey, I’m supposed to be grading final
exams! but this is just too delicious... -- Rufus,
02:29:06 05/11/02 Sat
And I, too, have always been surprised that Giles didn’t
step up to the plate on this one,
especially after the death of Jenny Calendar. But I think
our favorite red-head would have
become a witch one way or the other. She is drawn to it,
both the dark and the light.
It's too bad that ASH went back to England, I think we would
have seen a different story had he stuck around. I think
Giles big problem is that he overestimated Willows maturity.
He assumed like everyone around her that she was as
dependable as a Timex. Too bad they all didn't get to see
her dream in Restless when we got to see just how afraid she
is of who she is. That fear changed the sweet Willow we
first met into someone that needed to appear powerful, but
was afraid they still had none. Giles did warn Willow about
dark magics in B1 and Flooded, but he was ignored because
Willow always thought she was the one in control. Willow was
always seen as a light in all the darkness surrounding her,
one that reminded everone what good was all about, her
leanings into darkness are he attempts to be like everyone
else, unhappy with herself because she can only see her
faults, not what her friends have come to love.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [>
ooh, shivering with delight and agreement
(spoilers/speculation based on SR & promo for Villians )
-- redcat, 13:48:43 05/11/02 Sat
"Too bad they all didn't get to see her dream in Restless
when we got to see just how afraid she is of who she is.
That fear changed the sweet Willow we first met into someone
that needed to appear powerful, but was afraid they still
had none."
You just made me think of the scene in Willow's dream in
Restless when Buffy pulls off her "costume" to reveal Willow
dressed in the same clothes she wore in the first ep.
Chills running up my spine, I contemplate what this means
for the aftermath of Willow's eyes turning red, then black,
during her obvious turn to the dark side after Tara's death.
The promo shows B standing in her "slayer-as-hero,"
shoulders-squared, righteousness-embodied way. Throw in a
big dash of impatience and this stance is eerily reminiscent
of the attitude she had in the scene in Restless as she
ripped Will's clothes off. I can't even begin to imagine
what might be to come (and don't want to know, so please
don't spoil me), but if Buffy has to strip away the dark in
order for Willow to find her light, what will that look
like?
Thoughts?
PS - I think that at least one part of what Buffy will have
to strip away is her own conception of Willow as (as you
say) "always ... a light in all the darkness surrounding
her". Even after Willow hurt Dawn and after all she's seen
Willow go through lately, Buffy still says to Willow that
she has always been there for her or that she can always
depend on her or something like that ..(sorry, can't
remember the exact quote). It seemed odd to me when she
said it, but if it's supposed to be some sort of signal or
foreshadowing, then I guess it should seem odd.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
Re: Shivering.........spoilers for Seeing Red and
Villians -- Rufus, 17:09:13 05/11/02 Sat
One concept Buffy had of Willow in season five was that of
the big gun.....an innanimate object that can be used to
destroy.
From The Gift...
BUFFY: Will, what do you got for me?
WILLOW: Some ideas. (Buffy goes to sit on the stairs leading
up to the loft) Well, notions. Or, theories based on wild
speculation. Did I mention I'm not good under pressure?
BUFFY: I need you, Will. You're my big gun.
WILLOW: (alarmed) I'm your - no, I-I was never a
gun.Someone else should be the gun. I, I could be a, a
cudgel. Or, or a pointy stick.
BUFFY: You're the strongest person here. You know that,
right?
WILLOW: (frowns) Well ... no.
BUFFY: Will, you're the only person that's ever hurt Glory.
At all. You're my best shot at getting her on the ropes, so
don't get a jelly belly on me now.
WILLOW: Well ... I, I ... do sort of have this one idea.
But, last few days, I've mostly been looking into ways to
help Tara. I-I know that shouldn't be my
priority....
At the worst of times in The Gift, Willow was preoccupied
with saving Tara, the only one that she could think of, the
only person she has loved so completely.
WILLOW: Well, I've been charting their essences. Mapping
out. I think ... if I can get close enough, I may be able to
reverse what Glory did. Like, take back what she took from
Tara. It might weaken Glory, or ... make her less coherent.
Or it might make all our heads explode.
There is a big irony that the same thing Willow had to do
with Glory may be what the gang may be forced to do to her.
Willow half-walks, half-crawls over to where Tara lies
unconscious in a pile of debris.
WILLOW: Tara?
Tara's eyes open. She looks at Willow.
WILLOW: Tara?
TARA: W ... Willow?
WILLOW: (smiles hopefully) Tara?
TARA: (tearfully) Willow ... I got so lost.
WILLOW: (smiling) I found you.
Willow kisses Tara all over her face, then hugs her. They
both smile happily.
WILLOW: I will always find you.
With the death of Tara, Willow has ceased to be the strong
one, the one that everyone can depend upon. Willow has lost
the person she loved above all else, the person who kept her
grounded. Love and compassion has been the essence of Tara,
Willow is lost without her. I feel that what Willow will do
is a result of such despair that no one can reach her. All I
can say is look to the symbolic use of black and white for
the finale. I don't see Willow as a bad guy, or someone so
lost that they can never be found again. At the core, Willow
is a loving woman, one with compassion. We have to look at
the situation as a whole to finally get a feel of how
someone that was once so dependable can lose control, there
is stress to being the perfect one.
Giles said it best to Willow in Flooded...
GILES: (over his shoulder) You're a very stupid girl.
Willow pauses chewing, slowly stops smiling and frowns.
WILLOW: What? Giles...
GILES: (turns to face her) Do you have any idea what you've
done? The forces you've harnessed, the lines you've
crossed?
WILLOW: I thought you'd be ... impressed, or, or
something.
GILES: Oh, don't worry, you've ... made a very deep
impression. Of everyone here ... you were the one I
trusted most to respect the forces of nature.
WILLOW: Are you saying you don't trust me?
GILES: (intensely) Think what you've done to Buffy.
WILLOW: I brought her back!
GILES: At incredible risk!
WILLOW: Risk? Of what? Making her deader?
GILES: Of killing us all. Unleashing hell on Earth, I mean,
shall I go on?
WILLOW: No! (stands) Giles, I did what I had to do. I did
what nobody else could do.
GILES: Oh, there are others in this world who can do what
you did. You just don't want to meet them. (turns away
again)
WILLOW: No, probably not, but ... well, they're the bad
guys. I'm not a bad guy. (upset) I brought Buffy back
into this world, a-and maybe the word you should be looking
for is "congratulations."
GILES: Having Buffy back in the world makes me feel ...
indescribably wonderful, but I wouldn't congratulate you if
you jumped off a cliff and happened to survive.
WILLOW: That's not what I did, Giles.
GILES: (angry) You were lucky.
WILLOW: I wasn't lucky. I was amazing. And how would you
know? You weren't even there.
GILES: If I had been, I'd have bloody well stopped you.
The magicks you channeled are more ferocious and primal
than anything you can hope to understand, (even more angry)
and you are lucky to be alive, you rank, arrogant
amateur!
Giles made a mistake in assuming that Willow was a mature,
dependable, adult. All Willows mistakes ended without much
damage, but her lucky streak can't last. Giles does
understand that Willow has crossed a line, did he take the
time to consider just how far she would go? He could never
have anticipated the death of Tara, the one person that
Willow has been willing to fight, even the gods, for to
avenge a wrong done to her love. If Willow loses that much
control when Tara has been harmed but alive, what will be
unleashed when the powerful witch has to deal with the death
of love and hope and future happiness?
Like the Butterfly effect and the Law of Chaos, all the past
actions have converged to this point, none of the results
could have been predicted. Is there an element that can rise
above the power of destruction and avert entropic chaos?
[> [> [> [> [> [>
Re: Quibble me this.. -- SpikeMom,
14:45:43 05/11/02 Sat
Regarding Giles:
I think the reason why he did not perform the Soul Spell for
Angel (aside from from the broken fingers/torture angle)may
be found in the Primeval episode. One of the reasons that
they must work together is that Giles cannot reach the
levels of majicks required and that Willow can, while Giles
can read and pronounce the Summarian etc., etc. He did more
than just dabble in his Ripper days but that was done as a
group with other practioners who may have been more
advanced/talented/aggressive/insert adjective here than he
was.
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: Amazing response! Thank you...now I'm thinking
-- O'Cailleagh, 06:23:51 05/11/02 Sat
As a Witch myself, I have to agree with a lot of what you
both said, although I tend to view Buffyverse Wicca as
something quite different to what we practise. As to
Willow's current evilness, I feel it to be a combination of
living on the Hellmouth, former geekiness, and a healthy
dose of corruption from Moloch, way back in s1.
[>
Very nice, thanks. -- yez, 14:17:57 05/10/02
Fri
[> [>
To Masq: thanks for the fast work; sorry for the
problem. -- Fred, the obvious pseudonym and deservedly-
chastened dolt., 14:38:10 05/10/02 Fri
[>
It's always a good day when one of your essays is
up! -- ponygirl, 14:38:10 05/10/02 Fri
[>
Re: Willow, Tara & Amy - a tale of three witches
(spoiler to SR, long!) -- DEN, 16:11:25 05/10/02
Fri
Great analysis--a credit to your undergrad education! You
have it exactly right. Magic for Willow is not about power
as such. It is about power to fix things. And fixing things
is a way for Willow to heal--or scab over for awhile--the
hole in her soul. Such a hole is not of itself a dark place-
-but it is an emptiness darkness can all too easily fill.
Remember CS Lewis and the faces evil wears!
I also think it worth adding that entirely apart from
Giles's influence, Willow's fundamental view of the universe
is scientific, rationalist, and pragmatic. Magic to her is
something to be intellectualized: understood and then
applied. In that she is part of a "demystification" process
going on in the West at least since the Enlightenment. If a
thing can be done, Willow will at least consider doing it--
along the lines of today's advocates of cloning and
yesterday's nuclear researchers. As a "magickal technocrat,"
Willow stands apart from not only Giles and Tara, but from
the Buffyverse itself. How will she react to the Rule of
Three as expressed in the technical artifact, the nine-
millimeter bullet, that ruptured Tara's heart and shattered
Willow's as well.
[>
Re: Willow, Tara & Amy - fabulous Post -- Dochawk,
23:25:58 05/10/02 Fri
Shadowkat,
you are quickly becoming my favorite poster. these are
fabulous. I would like your opinion on a couple of things
that may flesh it out even more:
1. What about the influence of Jenny Calander? She started
Willow down teh road and she had a great respect for the
earth's balance.
2. I have always thought the reason that Willow advanced so
rapidly was her intelligence. Because she was brighter than
other practioners she had more "brain" to interact and
therefore more powerful.
3. Which leads me to point 3, what about the warlocks,
Giles (more about him later), Rack and most importantly
Jonathan. jonathan has become a pretty powerful user of
magic, his spell in Superstar and then all this year he has
been the magic brains behind the Legion of Doom (without him
Warren would have been nothing and not been able to pull off
anything he created). Do Warlocks ahave a different
relationship to the earth? Does the power come from a
different place?
4. Giles. This is the only place in your post where I
differ with you. I do not think you give Giles enough
credit for understanding magic:
GILES: (over his shoulder) You're a very stupid girl.
Willow pauses chewing, slowly stops smiling and frowns.
WILLOW: What? Giles...
GILES: (turns to face her) Do you have any idea what you've
done? The forces you've harnessed, the lines you've
crossed?
WILLOW: I thought you'd be ... impressed, or, or
something.
GILES: Oh, don't worry, you've ... made a very deep
impression. Of everyone here ... you were the one I trusted
most to respect the forces of nature.
WILLOW: Are you saying you don't trust me?
GILES: (intensely) Think what you've done to Buffy.
WILLOW: I brought her back!
GILES: At incredible risk!
WILLOW: Risk? Of what? Making her deader?
GILES: Of killing us all. Unleashing hell on Earth, I mean,
shall I go on?
WILLOW: No! (stands) Giles, I did what I had to do. I did
what nobody else could do.
GILES: Oh, there are others in this world who can do what
you did. You just don't want to meet them. (turns away
again)
WILLOW: No, probably not, but ... well, they're the bad
guys. I'm not a bad guy. (upset) I brought Buffy back into
this world, a-and maybe the word you should be looking for
is "congratulations."
GILES: Having Buffy back in the world makes me feel ...
indescribably wonderful, but I wouldn't congratulate you if
you jumped off a cliff and happened to survive.
WILLOW: That's not what I did, Giles.
GILES: (angry) You were lucky.
WILLOW: I wasn't lucky. I was amazing. And how would you
know? You weren't even there.
GILES: If I had been, I'd have bloody well stopped you. The
magicks you channeled are more ferocious and primal than
anything you can hope to understand, (even more angry) and
you are lucky to be alive, you rank, arrogant amateur!
From The Dark Age:
Giles: Yes. One of us would, um... (nervously pours a
drink) go into a deep sleep, and the others would, uh,
summon him. It was an extraordinary high! (smiles nervously)
God, we were fools.
from Becoming 1(giles warning Willow about using magick):
Giles: (very concerned) W-Willow... channeling... such
potent magicks through yourself, it could open a door that
you may not be able to close.
Giles is clearly aware of the power and the cost of using
magic. He would have been a much better guide for Willow,
if he had realized the extent of her problems from the
beginning, because as he stated, he expected a better
understanding from her.
[> [>
Re: Willow, Tara & Amy - fabulous Post --
shadowkat, 07:26:23 05/11/02 Sat
Assuming my system doesn't kick me off before I finish
writing this...sigh.
1. What about the influence of Jenny Calander? She started
Willow down teh road and she had a great respect for the
earth's balance.
I think Jenny may have started Willow down that road,
although I agree with redcat who says Willow may have gone
there anyway and it started with Moloch - which was the
episode where jenny was first introduced. I think, Jenny's
dying may have upset any balance that Willow may have gained
and unfortunately - Willow took over Jenny's position and
the computer - which means she had access to all of Jenny's
files, files that Giles either did not know about or hadn't
considering looking through. It's interesting that Willow is
the one who figures out that curse spell not Giles.
2. I have always thought the reason that Willow advanced so
rapidly was her intelligence. Because she was brighter than
other practioners she had more "brain" to interact and
therefore more powerful.
I agree - it has been posted elsewhere that Willow looks at
magic and nature as a scientist or rationalist would not as
a mystic. There is a BIG difference. Mystics like Giles and
Tara appreciate that there are forces beyond our
comprehension or understanding - things that cannot be
rationalized, examined or explained but must always be
respected. Willow is extraordinarily bright, but has had
0
guidance from Giles, her parents, anyone - which often
happens when the student outdistances the teacher.
Unguided
she has delved into areas that are outside her capacity to
understand, but her intelligence makes her arrogant, so she
thinks - she does.
3. Which leads me to point 3, what about the warlocks, Giles
(more about him later), Rack and most importantly Jonathan.
jonathan has become a pretty powerful user of magic, his
spell in Superstar and then all this year he has been the
magic brains behind the Legion of Doom (without him Warren
would have been nothing and not been able to pull off
anything he created). Do Warlocks ahave a different
relationship to the earth? Does the power come from a
different place?
I don't know, interesting question. I would think their
relationship with the power has to be different in some way
or come from a different place. Of the male characters on
the show - the one who comes closest to the feminine is
understandably the vampire - washed in blood, from the
earth, demonic - all metaphors that myths have used to
discuss the anima or female side of us. The other male
characters - are from the sky, harsher, more strong, not
emotional, not chaotic. Even Jonathan who has used magic to
his own ends - is not in any way chaotic - the magic is
controlled and often appears to injure him. Notice how often
he burns himself. I think these magics tend to be less from
the earth or the source of life or maybe they are from
outide the circle? Not sure - I just sense more linear
logic from the male characters than female magic
practicers.
Just feels different to me
4. Giles. This is the only place in your post where I differ
I do not think you give Giles enough credit for
understanding magic.
Oh I agree - he understands it. Sorry had troubles
expressing what I meant about Giles - you're right, he
didn't seem to see the extent of the problem. It's not
that
he doesn't appreciate magic, he does. No the problem with
Giles is he doesn't want to be involved in it. He would like
to leave all of it behind. Giles is reluctant. He also is a
bit self absorbed by the time we reach Season 6 - Buffy
was his responsibility, he feels he failed her and its time
to move on with his life. Willow, as much as he loves and
cares for her, he does not consider a responsibility, just a
friend. I honestly think he ignored what she was doing
because it was easier to do so, her spells helped him out.
He is about to pay for that - big time.
My question - why didn't Giles do the Primeval Spell instead
of Willow? Why didn't Giles try the curse first?
Why didn't Giles do the truth spell? Why did he need
Willow?
ME hints that Giles doesn't have any power - just
rudimentary knowledge like all watchers when it comes to
magic. He's a mystic not a warlock. He played with magic in
his twenties but that's as far as he went. Like Spike
and
Ethan Rayne - he does respect it. Rayne went further with
it. Giles stopped after Eyghorn incident. Magic scares
Giles. But clearly not enough to have reigned in Willow -
assuming he could have...hmmm, got me thinking about
Giles
again. Feel another essay coming on...must think on it.
[> [> [>
Spike & Willow, Tara -- alcibiades, 08:17:07
05/11/02 Sat
"ME hints that Giles doesn't have any power - just
rudimentary knowledge like all watchers when it comes to
magic. He's a mystic not a warlock. He played with magic in
his twenties but that's as far as he went. Like Spike
and
Ethan Rayne - he does respect it."
It's interesting to think about the Season 2 story arc this
way -- that a lot of what occurred in it, Spike being wheel
chair bound, losing Dru to Angel and then forever, etc. came
about as punishment for the dark magic he invoked on Dru's
behalf when he started draining Angel's blood into Dru
(forgot the name of the episode).
I suppose one could even say that that is when Spike learned
viscerally that dark magic always has bad consequences for
the practitioner.
It is interesting in that case that in Lover's Walk, Spike
wants Willow to perform the love spell on Dru. He doesn't
want to perform it himself, because by then he knows that if
he performs it himself, it is sure to backfire in a really
painful way just when he is happy with Dru again.
Speaking of which, is Tara's death the price that Tara pays
for helping to raise Buffy? Or the price that Willow pays?
Or the price that both of them must pay?
Anya and Xander of course have been paying a price recently,
but that doesn't seem related to Buffy in the way that
Warren coming after Buffy and shooting Tara incidentally
does. Well except the extra little bit of pain added by
Spike sleeping with Anya because of how Buffy has trifled
with his feelings this year.
[> [> [> [>
Tara's price -- Dochawk, 09:09:17 05/11/02
Sat
totally new tangent here, but I think Tara is paying the
price for raising Buffy. A death was taken away, a death is
owed adn only a death would even the score. Tara's fate was
sealed when Willow killed the fawn. And she is paying the
price for all of them, not just Willow. I think that debt
has been paid, problem is, seeing Willow, what will she do
now and what will be the cost? Is Willow risking something
even more grave then her life? meaning her soul?
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: Tara's price -- DEN, 13:54:43 05/11/02
Sat
Spike is both "trickster" and Cassandra: his fate is to tell
the truth and not to be believed. He said "there's always a
price." Four were complicit in the raising; four are paying.
Anya and Xander have a smaller bill because they were on the
margin. Tara and Willow, now---.
What impresses me about the Buffyverse is how HARD it is,
compard even with the Angelverse. There is no mercy, no
slack for ANYONE. The laws of karma are harsher in
Sunnydale than in any of the nightmare universes of orthodox
horror fiction. Check shadowkat's recent posting for
corroboration.
[>
Could it be that this season is about CONTROL? a.k.a.
Red=Redemption (spoilers) -- Joie (d V), 00:10:19
05/11/02 Sat
Shadowkat you sparked something in my mind with your talk of
Willow's continued propensity to use magic to control/change
her reality. It struck me that perhaps this is what all the
main characters are dealing with. All season has been about
the various ways of not letting nature take its
course...trying to manipulate or change reality...trying to
avoid dealing with reality.
Here are some of the controls and reality avoidances we've
seen this season:
-Bringing Buffy back to life (a decision made by all the
scoobies)
-Willow's use of magic
-Xander leaving Anya at the alter. (First he avoided
dealing with his doubts, then he literally ran/left and
didn't bother to clean the mess he made.)
-Dawn's stealing
-Buffy hiding her relationship with Spike (She went so far
to hide it that she poured out the antitode in NA rather
than deal with Spike telling her friends)
-Tara wanting to skip the steps of a natural
reconciliation.
(she wouldn't have been there and gotten killed if this
hadn't happened...yet ironically she was killed due to
Warren's manipulation of reality)
-Spike blaming his dealings with Buffy on the chip when it
doesn't even work on her.
-The Troika's multitude of ploys to control and change
reality....from making Katrina/any woman a sex slave
(leading to death), to the orbs used recently, to Warren's
desparate gun toting.
-Spike attempting to force himself on Buffy in the
bathroom.
-Anya's bent to make Xander pay.
I'm sure there's plenty more.
As often stated, I do think this season is in general about
growing up, but I think there is far more depth to it than
meets the eye. This season has been a chain of cause (due
to control) and effect.
Control is such a big issue in life (perhaps more than we
care to realize) and we are constantly dealing with the
repercussions there of.
I'd even dare say that the with the exception of natural
disasters and illnes, the majority of life's problems are
due to someone controling/manipulating/avoiding reality.
Its usually these things that create the need for
forgiveness. And once that forgiveness is dispensed, true
renewal or redemption can occur. This is what all of our
characters are so desparately in need of right now.
For centuries and in different walks of life, red has
symbolized redemption. Did anyone happen to notice all the
different people that were in contact with red last Tuesday?
I noticed Willow andTara in the Red sheets, Johnathan had on
a deep red/burgundy sweater, Spike's drink and bedspread (I
think), Buffy's blood, Buffy's blood on Xander, Tara's blood
on herself and Willow, and I even thought Willow's hair
looked more red than usual.
The ramifications of manipulating destinies can be huge like
Warren's murder(s) and Buffy's painful life after death. Or
they can be small like Dawn's shop lifting. Though all of
these manipulations are done selfishly by the manipulator
(they think only of what they want and need) it touches
others. As a result, lifes and relationships need to be
renewed and the manipulator needs to be redeemed or
condemned. I think the scoobies will be redeemed...
~Joie (d V)
[> [>
Re: Could it be that this season is about CONTROL?
a.k.a. Red=Redemption (spoilers) -- shadowkat,
07:41:59 05/11/02 Sat
Great comments. I agree. I wrote a post earlier in the week
on reality and how we deal with it - it's on my website
if you want to check it out. (Links are mentioned on ATP
board).
You've managed to expand on the theme brillantly - I
wrote
the essay before I saw SR. Didn't know "red" symbolized
redemption - always thought it symbolized anger. Hmmm
interesting. We have 6 characters in search of
redemption?
6 characters who are trying to handle difficult shifts and
nasty realities by either ignoring, avoiding, forcing change
or controlling? What's interesting is that instead of
controlling their own reactions or making a choice about
themselves - they are asserting control on factors outside
themselves.
It makes me think of that old 12 step quote, which I can't
for the life of me remember the exact phrasing of -
something like: "God grant me the ability to change the
things I can, the ability to accept what I can't change, and
the wisdom to know the difference." Our characters haven't
figured out the difference yet. Spike took the first step at
the end of SR when he got on that motorcycle and left town
to determine who the hell he is - he finally figured out
that the only reality he had control over was what was in
his head - who he was. He had to go and find himself before
he dealt with anyone else. (Actually I think Spike may have
been the only character last night that made a first
positive step - possibly b/c he shocked himself into an
epiphany?? Don't know - please - this is a digressing, don't
want to turn this into yet another S debate they are giving
me a headache.) Back to willow - she hasn't taken this step.
She wants to control reality outside herself instead of
controlling what's inside. Tara
I think is closer - but you're right, she came back too
soon. Tara took control - in the sense, I miss you, lets
move this forward. Not sure...anyway just a few
ramblings.
Thanks for the response - got me thinking! Have decided this
is my favorited board.
[> [> [>
CONTROL? a.k.a. Red=Redemption (slight B7
spoilers) -- MaeveRigan, 08:51:07 05/11/02 Sat
Of course there's no reason that Red can't symbolize both
anger and redemption, depending on the dramatic situation.
In fact, given that we're talking about ME and Buffy,
nothing's more likely.
Great point about control, how crucial it is for the
scoobies (and all of us, of course) to learn what we can and
cannot legitimately, realistically control in our lives, in
others', in the world. Where are the lines between hope and
despair, between megalomania and helplessness? We've seen
all the characters negotiate these, stumble, trip and
fall.
What's exciting, what keeps me watching, is that one by one
they're getting it.
Although B7 has been telegraphed as "Back to the beginning,"
I really think it's going to be *so* much more exciting than
that, because the characters will know so much more, have so
much more control--but in a good way.
[> [> [> [>
Red=Redemption, a question -- alcibiades,
09:32:21 05/11/02 Sat
Redcat (interesting spin on your name),
In which cultures does red symbolize redemption?
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: Red=Redemption, a question -- redcat,
10:32:00 05/11/02 Sat
Great questions and comments, folks, all 'round on
this thread!! Yeah, shadowkat, for getting
us started!
Am having a bit of trouble with the posts. I tried posting
part of this earlier but it doesn’t seem
to have gone through, so, sorry if I wind up repeating
myself.
O'Cailleagh: nice to see there’s another pagan on the board.
Blessed be! And I agree with
you totally that magick and Wicca work differently in the
Buffyverse than they do in the “real”
world, and I don’t think we should expect them to, really.
Buffy isn’t about Wicca, it’s about
Joss getting to play with myth and culture and our heads in
the process. I’m willing to let him -
he does it pretty well.
alcibiades: I find Joie (d V)’s idea that red=redemption
really intriguing, but don’t off-hand know
of any culture/s where the color works like that. Usually,
red is associated with much more
“strong” emotions and processes, i.e., sex, death, birth,
love, anger/rage, pain, etc., or with
“socially big” issues like royalty, ascension, succession,
power. Redemption seems to me to
be a transformative concept, just like many of the
emotions/processes listed above, and so it
might be a good metaphoric fit. But redemption also seems
to include a certain quality of
“grace,” which I think of as the Great Gift (in Tarot,
signified by the Star card) willingly given by
the forces of love, compassion and forgiveness to the
generally-undeserving-but-hopeful
mortal who is at least trying to get things right. Grace is
therefore somewhat similar to what
the Spirit Guide in the guise of the First Slayer tells
Buffy: “Love. Give. Forgive. “ I don’t see a
similar metaphoric fit between this part of my understanding
of redemption with the other types
of emotions/processes generally associated with red. But
it’s a very intriguing concept and we
all may want to keep pushing the consideration further.
Thanks, Joie, for suggesting it.
[...and BTW, I’m redcat ‘cause I was born with flaming red
hair (now somewhat assisted by my
friend in a box) and obviously have a significant smattering
of kitty-cat DNA (oh, look, she’s
taking a nap again; and there she is looking bored and
insouciant when she feels she’s being
ignored; hey, watch out with those claws!!; what do you mean
you live on a tropical island and
don’t go in the water?...)]
Also, wanted to say that I’m particularly intrigued by the
questions about Jonathan's use of
magic, which I've also been thinking about lately,
especially within the context of shadowkat's
original post on the 3 witches. No thoughts clear enough yet
to post, but my fellow Short
Person has definitely set up shop in the old brain pan, so
perhaps a post soon?
And I agree that Giles is more a scholar and a mystic than a
witch/warlock [note: I don’t
personally use differently-gendered names for
practitioners. Magick is magick, will is will, spirit
is spirit, and witches are witches -- no matter what kind of
stones they have. (Mine are mostly
amber and garnet...) But if it’s the accepted use on this
board, then I suppose I’m arguing that
Giles is NOT a warlock.] I do think he recognizes that
Willow is a natural adept, but he
dismisses her because she’s “just” Willow, just a kid, until
it’s too late, and only after he
realizes how powerful she’s become (Flooded). But then she
frightens him, I think, and
instead of dealing with that, he just walks out and leaves
the Scoobs to their own devices. I
hope he comes to his senses and uses HIS gifts of maturity
and wisdom and what I believe is
his true love for her, to help her find her way back from
the dark side.
On the topic of Spike's use of dark magicks, I see a
metaphysical/philosophical question: why
would a vampire have to "pay" (in a negative sense) for
using dark magic? Isn't he/she
"supposed to be treading on the dark side," as Spike reminds
Buffy on "Smashed"? I'm not
sure how this all works out in any "real-world" sense of
magicks and Wicca and un-named
chthonic powers and (generally) no-vampires-allowed reality,
but in the Buffyverse, the price
for using magick seems to depend on the needs of the writers
for (gasp!) dramatic character
development. And if Spike has to “pay” for using dark
magick, shouldn’t he then get some
good mileage out of the “good” things he’s done? Or is it
all reversed with a vamp, and his
punishment of being wheelchair-bound after the spell to
restore Drusilla using Angel’s blood is
really because he’s NOT monster enough, as we keep being
told by ME over and over again?
Anyway, Hope this isn’t too ramble-y. Hey, it’s Saturday
morning here and the sun’s shining. What’s it like where you
all are?
[> [> [> [> [> [>
Re: Red=Caritas/Charity and Cupiditas/Amor *
Spoilers -- fresne, 19:54:19 05/11/02 Sat
Well, blood red is associated with Caritas. Basically, in an
Augustinian sort of way, everyone has love which wells up
within them. It is "how" we choose to love which makes our
love noble or ignoble, i.e., an act of Cupiditas (self
centered love) or Caritas (open giving love, also known as
charity.) Keeping in mind that Cupiditas and Caritas are two
sides of the same coin (which has more sides/words than I'm
to go into right now), because they derive from the same
source, the desire to and for love.
And depending on who you read, Cupiditas is the same thing
as Amor, which means "pull, attraction, being driven
together." It's not bad. It is after all what keeps the
species going. In a way it is what Spike (and no I don't
want to turn this into an ATLtS either, I'll be heading back
to Willow country soon.) describes when he discusses
passionate burning love.
Caritas isn't passionate in that way. I think the best
explanation that I've heard is that it is a calm clear light
towards which all things are attracted, but from which we
sometimes turn away because it is so very bright. It is the
flashpoint of mercy, as Giles would say, not because someone
deserves it, but because they need it. It is both the
opposite and the same thing as desire. Thus they are both
(Caritas and Cupiditas) symbolized by the color red.
And for a brief moment, I drift into color theory, which I
hopefully will not butcher. I wonder if the black of
Willow's eyes (or Amy, or Catherine, or insert black magic
mojoer here) are a reflected CMYK color or a shining black
RGB.
RGB (pretty shiny light like the sun or the computer screen
you're looking at right now) is an additive color system.
Black is the absence of light and therefore the absence of
color. When you add all the colors together, you get
white.
CMYK (pretty reflected light on a surface, like a red dress)
is a subtractive color system. White is the absence of
color. When you add all the colors together, you get
black.
So, here we have Willow (to get back to the subject) who has
always yearned towards the light. The light being
approbation from her peers. The light being her mother's
respect/attention. The light being love from a partner. She
has satisfied this desire by doing. She does magic. She
fixes things. She seeks out information.
Tara also yearned for the light. Lived her life in shadows.
Felt isolated from the warmth of the sun. I loved the color
saturation in Willow and Tara's musical number in OMwF. Then
she met Willow, whose light illuminated her. How Tara
satisfies her desire for the light is a bit harder to peg,
because it isn't as action oriented as Willow's "let me
help." When Tara shows love, it appears to be enfolding. She
embraces Willow, she talks quietly with Buffy, reaches out
to Dawn. I find myself thinking of her role in the Body.
We talk about the earth as a source of magic. The earth is
the dark of (well, it's not shiny like a monitor so I guess
the winner is) CMYK. Secret, enclosed, enclosing. The dead
returning to dust, feeding the grass that grows up from the
dark soil into the sun's light. I believe we've already
discussed entropy in relation to sunlight, so insert other's
more insightful comments on entropy here.
So, in Entropy, Tara, drawing knowledge and a sense of magic
from a long matrilineal line, living in shadows, you can
practically see her roots at the earth's center, in an act
which was both Caritas (give, forgive, love) and, well, Amor
(can you just be kissing me), goes to her source of light,
Willow.
For a moment I have a sense, which I can't really express in
any sort of argument or example, of Willow as the sun,
bright illuminating science, ideas, excitement, energy,
spinning, burning and Tara, as the cool dark forgiving,
giving earth. Both being necessary for life, but in
completely different, but equally important ways. Needing to
be in balance.
In a non-trinitarian sort of way, I'd like to throw Anya as
another witch into the mix. Not doing spells, and yes a
demon, but she once cast a curse which brought her to
D'Hoffran's attention. Just as Anya seems to be turning away
from vengeance as a be-all solve all, representing an
idyllic time in her life (immortal, powerful, confidant,
knowing her place in the universe), Willow seems about to
step up to the plate.
As we saw in the preview (spoiler I guess), when Willow's
eyes go black, when she draws on chaos or the Darkest magics
or whatever, it's not just black as evil. It's black as a
lack of the light that should naturally shine forth. Light
extinguished in a turning away from Caritas and towards
Cupiditas. I hurt. I want. I need.
Leaching the red from her hair. The color from her eyes.
Dressed in black. Extinguished. Shhh…
[> [> [> [> [> [> [>
ah, fresne, what a graceful gift this post is!
flashpoint of mercy, indeed... -- redcat, 21:28:19
05/11/02 Sat
[>
Colorado College Spawned Shadowkat? -- RelativeGirl,
23:16:10 05/11/02 Sat
I don't think I've ever been so proud of my alma mater as
when I learned that Shadowkat went to CC too! Apparently I
should have spent more time in the English department and
less in the Religion department. I'm class of '86 which
means we were there at the same time. Hmmm, Shadowkat drop
me an email sometime.
Comparing a
couple of storylines just for fun (SPOILERS for SR and
really, really old GH soap) -- verdantheart, 13:15:43
05/10/02 Fri
Just for comparison's sake ...
"That scene" in "Seeing Red" reminded me of something I
experienced many (OK, I'm feeling old) years ago. When I was
a teen my sister tended to watch some soaps so I had some
fragmentary (which would explain any gaps in memory)
exposure to a soap called "General Hospital." You may know
where I'm going with this.
In that show an adult bar owner rapes a teenage girl. But as
the girl's trauma progresses, we find out that she's in love
with her rapist. As far as I remember, it was her first
sexual encounter (though I could be wrong ...) and it seemed
to me she barely knew him though she might have been
attracted to him. I thought that the storyline was rather
unrealistic and might even encourage some boys to push their
girlfriends. I found the whole idea disturbing rather than
romantic, but it seems I took the minority viewpoint, since
Luke & Laura turned into the great romance of the soap and
(from occasional ads I run into) appears to have endured to
this day ...
I found the treatment in SR more realistic from a character
point of view (didn't see it as out of character on either
side). I also saw the following differences: there was no
actual rape; any love on Buffy's side (and I'm not
necessarily saying there is any) could not be associated
with the rape attempt; I didn't feel that rape was being
romanticized in spite of the fact that a popular character
is involved; the situation was a complex one in which the
participants had previously engaged in rough sexual play and
no-means-yes doubletalk; it seemed clear to me that Spike's
actions were (I can't stress this enough, apparently)
wrong.
I don't remember much complaining about the GH storyline
(maybe there was some; there wasn't an Internet forum to
rant on at the time), but I thought it was rather surprising
to see a rape rewarded and viewed as romantic (on TV, yet).
I don't think that's how rape was portrayed on BtVS and,
interestingly, I don't think anyone's really complained
about that so much as some fan's defense or even
understanding of Spike's actions.
I don't know if this really adds much to our discussions,
but I found stepping back and comparing somewhat
interesting.
[>
Re: Comparing a couple of storylines just for fun
(SPOILERS for SR and really, really old GH soap) -- old
GH fan, 13:19:21 05/10/02 Fri
no, I remember when Luke and Laura were just becoming an
item, and there WAS lots of upset over Laura 'falling for'
the man who assulted her.
[> [>
That storyline was really creepy -- dream of the
consortium, 13:49:01 05/10/02 Fri
Laura would flashback - oh, pretty much every other episode
- to the rape in a weirdly dreamy way. It was as if she was
reminiscing about a first kiss, except of course, it was a
clearly brutal rape. It was deeply, deeply strange. I
remember finding it so even at the time, and I must have
been about 10.
[> [> [>
Re: That storyline was really creepy -- Agree-- and
then some!, 18:09:35 05/10/02 Fri
I never watched soaps, and I was in high school when that
whole "Luke & Laura" thing happened. My family-- mostly New
York women-- were scandalized that such an event could take
place in that time-- that the gushiest romatic couple on TV
got started by a televising of the primal rape fantasy. (My
aunt is an NYC therapist-- forgive the psychospeak)
I'll agree that it creeps me out-- but not so much as
discovering that there is such a thing as the primal rape
fantasy in psychology.It reminds me once again that Nature
is not a feminist. Bitch. :P
[>
Re: Comparing a couple of storylines just for fun
(SPOILERS for SR and really, really old GH soap) --
Rendyl, 16:42:00 05/10/02 Fri
Laura was married at the time of the rape (to Scott Baldwin)
and refused to tell him or anyone else who had raped her.
At first it seemed because she was upset, but then later
writing made it seem like she felt she needed to hide what
happened because she did have feelings for Luke.
I suspect the original idea was to have him rape her then
ship him off the show after suitable angst and
suffering.
What happened was the actor turned out to have great
chemistry with several other actors, including Genie (Laura)
and the storyline had to be altered so he could continue to
work on the show.
(This happens a lot on soaps. It seems like the writers
have no clue that putting people into these very intense
scenes often results in mind blowing performances. And, the
audience gets hooked on the characters. They do it with
other bad guys as well and then are forced to resort to the
twin brother or sister ploy to keep a popular character on
the show)
There are actually some similarities. Both in the GH
storyline and in SR the writers chose to blur the hard
lines. Laura and Luke had been flirting for quite a while.
They had not slept together, but they had kissed.
Luke and Spike were both bad boys. Luke was there to help
his sister (which originally meant hurting Laura) and Spike
to cure Dru (which of course meant hurting the slayer.)
Luke (like Spike) was drunk, stressed, and confused.
Unfortunately for Laura she was not a Slayer and Luke did
not stop.
I have always thought Laura simply told herself the rape was
not important. That she pushed it away and refused to
accept that it happened. That pretending it wasn't really
rape -was- her way of dealing with it. That being with Luke
afterward somehow made it okay in her head.
(I know, I know, but this was a woman who had repeatedly run
away from home, been in trouble with the law, had sex with
her much older boyfriend, and accidently killed her mothers
lover, all by the time she was 16. I expect a little
unsteadiness from her)
I did not like the retroactive PC'ing of the rape done a few
years ago. If your storyline won't stand then don't write
it. But then I don't write the show. (grin)
I did think the way One Life to Live handled Marty's rape
was well done. Throwing out the angsty-soapy standbys (like
donating blood to save your rapist-sigh) it becomes a decent
storyline. And for a while Todd Manning was the most
compelling character on daytime television. His stalking of
Nora when she was blind was just too creepy. The later
explorations of whether or not he could actually be redeemed
were good writing as well.
Ren
Seeing Ahead
(Spoilers for SR and the future BtVS) -- Vegeta,
14:04:25 05/10/02 Fri
I have to say that "Seeing Red" may be the most telling
episode of Season 6. So many of the storylines that ME has
created for S6 have finally come to a head. In my opinion,
it also seems that SR is also giving us a glimpse into the
future of BtVS.
Would it seem likely that the Spike you all know and love is
going to finally get that chip out? It seems that was
certainly his intention when he left Sunnydale near the end
of SR. If so, are we getting a glimpse of a/the "Big Bad"
in Season 7?
Xander and Buffy seemed to definetly reconnect in SR. When
Buffy and Xander reconciled at the end of SR, I found Tara's
comment about them very interesting... "Making up is the
best part". Even though I know the comment was in relation
to Willow and Tara's rekindled love, I think ME may have
been throwing us a little wink. I think it's entirely
possible that we may be seeing a much closer Xander and
Buffy in the future. ie "You know I love you..." (the last
thing Buffy says before Warren's most fatal
interuption).
Last but not least, are we seeing a exit of Willow's
character. The sneaky peak for Villians clearly shows
Willow going back down the path of Dark Magics. Will she be
consumed by magic as Riley's wife (don't remember her name)
described the shamans in South America were? I personally
hope not, but it's a definite possibility to consider.
I know I am kind of babbling, so I leave y'all with this
thought. How is it that Warren's jet pack still worked
after that ton of rocks fell on him?
[>
Re: Seeing Ahead (Spoilers for SR and the future
BtVS) -- pr10n, 14:19:58 05/10/02 Fri
From the "I haven't seen it on the board but I may have
missed it" Department:
Is there a little d'Hoffryn amulet action happening in the
Villains trailer?
I know folks on the board have mentioned they are waiting
for that little plot point (Something Blue) to come home to
roost. Maybe Willow is less/more than human, and therefore
won't be consumed by her power.
[> [>
Re: Seeing Ahead (Spoilers for SR and the future
BtVS) -- LittleBit, 19:47:16 05/10/02 Fri
I certainly thought so.
[>
Re: Seeing Ahead (Spoilers for SR and the future
BtVS) -- Robert, 15:56:34 05/10/02 Fri
>> "How is it that Warren's jet pack still worked after that
ton of rocks fell on him?"
Apparently, despite Warren's amorality, he is a good
engineer.
[>
Re: Seeing Ahead (Spoilers for SR and the future
BtVS) -- Ishkabibble, 17:22:06 05/10/02 Fri
"How is it that Warren's jet pack still worked after that
ton of rocks fell on him?"
It used rock(et) fuel? Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
[>
Re: Seeing Ahead (Spoilers for SR and the future BtVS
and Angel) -- Calluna, 17:39:40 05/10/02 Fri
I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice the Buffy/Xander
thing. Ever since Joss said that the next season would go
back to the beginning, I've been thinking that B&X might
finally get together. Especially now that Willow's gay (her
crush is no longer an issue), Spike's gone and Anya's a
demon again. For the first few years, I was totally against
the whole B&X thing because of Willow's crush. Been through
that too many times, felt sorry for Willow. But now, I think
Xander might be the best thing for Buffy. Nice guy who knows
all her secrets and issues. And Buffy knows all Xander's
issues too. It would be a nice counterpoint to what they're
supposedly setting up on Angel with Cordy and Angel.
Interesting that. We start out with Buffy and Angel/Cordy
and Xander and end up totally reversed. Weird, but
interesting none the less.
[> [>
Re: Seeing Ahead (Spoilers for SR and the future BtVS
and Angel) -- Dariel, 10:34:13 05/11/02 Sat
But now, I think Xander might be the best thing for
Buffy. Nice guy who knows all her secrets and issues. And
Buffy knows all Xander's issues too.
I don't see it. For one thing, there's no hint of a romantic
undertone in what Xander says to Buffy. In fact, it's just
the opposite. "I don't know what I'd do without you and
Will."
Xander hardly knows all of Buffy's secrets and issues, or
vice versa. What they've revealed to each other so far is
just the tip of the iceberg.
And isn't Xander supposed to represent Joss in a loose kind
of way? If that's so, Xander and Buffy becomes, well, kind
of ewwww. Like the whole show has been about Joss's teenage
fantasy about getting the girl.
(Okay, I'll admit to bias, being something of a B/S shipper.
But, B/X just turns my stomach--too incestous. I'd even take
Riley over Xander!)
A Buffy Tarot
-- Etrangere, 15:54:28 05/10/02 Fri
This is some stuff I've been working on during the May sweep
mostly, inspired by an old discussion on the board :
Buffy
Tarot
Don't hesitate to comment and criticise.
[>
I might have chosen a few differently, considering S6,
but overall it's extremely well done -- anjee
, 16:25:47 05/10/02 Fri
[>
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing! -- Nina,
17:40:43 05/10/02 Fri
[>
Re: A Buffy Tarot -- yuri, 18:35:29 05/10/02
Fri
I don't know tarot enough to comment on your matchings, but
good job with your first time in Photoshop! I could
recommend you as a web designer to many friends who seem to
think they understand photoshop and intenet aesthetics.
[> [>
Re: A Buffy Tarot -- MaeveRigan, 19:42:59
05/10/02 Fri
I really love this idea, Etrangere! And your choices of
characters & quotations for the major arcana are really
beautifully apropos.
The only one that struck me as possibly limited to seasons 1-
5 is Willow as Temperance. She certainly seems to have lost
touch with it in season 6. On second thought, it still
works. Temperance is the very thing our Willow needs most;
in season 6 she's Temperance, reversed.
Sooo...now for the lesser arcana. I guess the wands become
stakes? You'll still want swords, of course.
[>
Re: A Buffy Tarot (comments, longish) -- Just
George, 01:04:11 05/11/02 Sat
When I saw how much work you put into making your Tarot, I
figured it was only fair to put some work into commenting on
each one. BTW, I'm glad that you used the main characters as
the major arcana. I also appreciated the quotes as fitting
the needs of the cards and positively positioning the
characters.
My comments are:
Buffy as the Magician is cool. The look fits as well.
For the High Priestess I might have used Tara in diaphanous
dress from Buffy's dream in Restless. However, the current
Amber pic is very pretty.
I didn't get Anya as The Empress until I read your text. Now
I get it. And I can see why you used the pic, the flowers
fit. However, I think this is one of the less flattering
pics you used. It doesn't seem very BTVS.
Xander as The Emperor is great. The pic is great. The quote
is great. I realy liked this card!
Giles as The Hierophant is a natural. The writing is a bit
light, but the quote is great.
Spike IS The Lover. I'm glad you put him there. I love the
two women in the background.
Cordelia's car didn't come across in The Chariot card. It
seemed like it was faded out too much.
You choose my favorite Jenny pic for The Justice. It is
haunting.
I might have gone for a "sick" Riley pic from "Goodbye
Iowa". In the show he was feverish and had strangely hair.
It might fit the Hermit.
I might have done a montage pic for The Wheel of Fortune.
But I'm a sucker for Buffy with a sucker!
I like Oz as The Strength. This is also a cool pic. I might
have used the quote that goes something like "I know what
it's like to have something powerful, something dangerous,
inside me."
Angel pic as The Hanged Man was perfect. The quote was less
so, but I can't think of a better one.
The Master IS Death. The quote is perfect.
The Willow pic is a bit too racy for The Temperance. Also,
my spell checker suggests it should be " Temperance " with
an "a". I love the quote.
I love Faith as the devil. Her pic is a bit too dark. She is
hard to see on my monitor.
I think you made the right choice to have the Council as The
Tower. They are more important than the Initiative.
I love the quotes on the Star. I think I would have just
used the fire pic from Intervention. But it is a beautiful
card in any case.
I love Ethan as The Moon. Pic + Quotes = All Good.
I like the family pic, but should the "Sun" pic be just
Joyce? If so, you would need a new quote.
I loved the Mayor and his quote in "The Judgement".
Dawn as the world? Great choice!
I loved Jonathan as "The Fool". I have always been a fan of
Jonathan's character, and I am glad that he made it into
your Tarot.
Congratulations on producing something beautiful,
thoughtful, and interesting. I hope you get much enjoyment
from it.
[>
Ete, that's really beautiful. -- Lilac,
05:46:24 05/11/02 Sat
[>
Re: A Buffy Tarot - truly beautiful! -- recdat,
10:50:16 05/11/02 Sat
I also might have made some different choices (not sure
about Riley as the Hermit or Willow
as Temperance), but can see your reasoning in each card and
think some choices are
particularly apt. I really like Spike as the Lover and
Giles as the Hierophant, although I would
have perhaps taken his quote from Season 1 (can’t remember
it exactly now) that goes
something like this (talking to Xander and Willow, I think):
“Vampires exist. Buffy is a Vampire
Slayer. That’s all I think you need to know.”
But all the quotes and images are really wonderful!! Thanks
so much for sharing your work.
Verizon Wireless
vs. Sunnydale (minor spoils) -- neaux, 16:41:36
05/10/02 Fri
Verizon Wireless vs. Sunnydale
As I contemplate the lack of communication throughout season
6, I cant help but wonder what life would be like in
Sunndale if Cell Phones mattered. To be honest I cant recall
seeing a cell phone in Sunnydale, but as I watched "The I in
Team" today, I noticed Riley had a cell phone. As he made
contact with one of his initiative boys, he suffered massive
static problems. Is Sunnydale's hellmouth to blame for cell
phone problems? Is that why we dont see them being used?
We know that Angel's team in L.A. can afford them. Gunn and
Angel keep a heads up on things with their cellies. They
have the money to do so as well. But Angel Investigations
thrives on teamwork. The cell phone is just as important as
the Axe or sword.
Season 6 on Buffy has shown that the Scooby Team has been
fragmented. So maybe cell phones arent needed? That I'm not
so sure. Remember Xander trying to reach Buffy when she was
all Invisible? Damn a cell phone could have been handy.
Xander could have said, "Hey Buffy!! Get your butt over here
or you'll be pudding!" Cell phones could be a LIFESAVER.
But there is the money thing too. Xander could afford a
cell phone bill. So could Anya. It might not be in Buffy's
budget. But keeping tabs on Dawnie is pretty damn important
too. Does Dawn have a cell phone? I cant recall. I thought
all teenagers had cells. hmmm.. (Someone please respond to
this ponderance)
I assumed this has been discussed at length in the forums,
but since Verizon has made its way into Sunnydale this
season, we should think that the Mighty Verizon has found a
way to solve this problem. Willow is frequently on the
internet, so lets assume Verizon supplies the lines in
Sunnydale. Now whether Willow uses Cable or DSL, I'm not
quite sure, but I believe that Verizon provides both. If
Verizon has set up good internet connections, then I guess
they know the layout of the town pretty well. They probably
have seen the sewers and the sewer inhabitants and know they
have their work cut out for them. But I think that their
desire for United States domination requires them to break
into the Sunnydale market. I can see the Verizon crew at
their headquarters scratching their heads wondering why cell
phone use in a town in California is at an all time low.
Well the good news is that they have made the first step by
setting up that dandy payphone in town.
Here is the bad news. Verizon has one guy going through the
sewers saying "Can you Hear Me Now?" He is probably going to
get killed without backup. Does Verizon have an Army of "Can
you Hear Me now?" Guys? Well, they are going to need it if
they really want to service the Sunnydale area. Actually,
Verizon might want to tap into the seance market. I bet the
seance market is really big in Sunnydale. Live people
wanting to talk to Dead relatives.
anyway these are my random thoughts at this time.. and thank
you anyone who took the time to read them. Please anyone
with anything to add, please do!!
-neaux
[>
ROFL ! at least there's one thing the Hellmouth is
useful for -- Ete, 16:55:33 05/10/02 Fri
I can't stand those devil's devices called cell phones
:p
[>
Re: Verizon Wireless vs. Sunnydale (minor spoils) -
- Veronica, 17:24:55 05/10/02 Fri
Your message was a funny coincidence because my roommate,
who rarely watches Buffy, thought that the "Can you hear me
now?" guy WAS Xander!
[> [>
Re: Verizon Wireless vs. Sunnydale (minor spoils) -
- Dochawk, 17:39:01 05/10/02 Fri
then how the heck did the wireless cameras work? With all
those feeds?
And doesn't the "can you heare me now" guy do a commericial
in Angel's alley?
Think of the potential product placement!
[> [> [>
Re: Verizon Wireless vs. Sunnydale (minor spoils) -
- Talia, 23:11:04 05/10/02 Fri
rotfl, neaux. You're on to something!
Maybe the Trio put magical feeds in in the cameras along
with the technological ones.
Verizon can follow their lead and issue special "cell
phones" for Sunnydale. The special Sunnydale-only
commercials will feature the guy waving incense, chanting,
and then opening up his cell phone with arcane runes all
over it and saying "Can you here me now?"
[>
Cordy carried one in HS - remember Homecoming --
gds, 22:08:59 05/10/02 Fri
[> [>
Re: Cordy carried one in HS - remember Homecoming -
- neaux, 06:55:05 05/11/02 Sat
Thanks for the heads up.
But where did she end up going? somewhere with better
reception I guess.
[> [> [>
Cordy even had one in WttH/H and it worked in the
basement (?) of the Bronze -- Sophist, 08:25:21
05/11/02 Sat
Classic Movie of
the Week - May 10th 2002 -- OnM, 21:27:35 05/10/02
Fri
*******
Such questions... become infinitely more interesting than
the questions in simple-minded commercial
movies, about whether the hero will kill the bad guys, and
drive his car fast, and blow things up, or whether
his girlfriend will take off her clothes. Seeing a movie
like (this one), we are reminded that watching many
commercial films is the cinematic equivalent of reading Dick
and Jane. The mysteries of everyday life are
so much deeper and more exciting than the contrivances of
plots.
............ Roger Ebert
*******
Blue, liberty; White, equality; Red, fraternity... We looked
very closely at these three ideas, how they
functioned in everyday life, but from an individual's point
of view. These ideals are contradictory with
human nature. When you deal with them practically, you do
not know how to live with them. Do people
really want liberty, equality, fraternity?
............ Krzysztof Kieslowski
*******
As I was driving home from work tonight, I suddenly became
aware of the special color of the light. It was
about 20 minutes after 8 PM here in southeastern
Pennsylvania, and as the sun was preparing to settle
down below the horizon that long, graceful wavelength type
of light was casting a gracious, moody glow
over the street, the houses, the people and whatever else it
happened to caress.
I’ve seen this type of light any number of times before, and
it always tends to evoke some manner of
emotional response. The exact same city street that seems
terminally seedy and run-down by the harsh light
of midday looks somehow less derelict and more inviting even
though it is only the illumination that has
changed, not the subject being illuminated. I let my mind
detach from the demands of reason, and
embraced the moment, because I knew it was one that was
short-lived. Light changes fast at dusk, as it
does in the early morning scene that mirrors this one in
reverse. The clock may count the minutes as if they
are all the same, but the moment can be stretched if the
soul is willing to be alive in it.
Then the reasonable demands begin to return, and I stop at a
mini-market a few blocks from home to pick
up a few minor items I needed to complete my planned evening
repast, and by the time I exited the parking
lot a mere five minutes later, the glow was gone, and the
mood it had induced along with it. I felt no
particular remorse; moments come and moments go. I started
the engine of my car, and made my way the
last few blocks to home, thinking about an interesting intro
for what I was going to write in the movie
column tonight.
The visual look of this week’s Classic Movie might best be
described as what would occur if you could
take that period of a few brief minutes where some rose-hued
light over the world relaxes into realms of
possibilities-- and then sustains those effects for a period
of days. Real, yet dreamlike. A place where the
individual lines of choice and chance bring about a destiny
that becomes perfection without ever seeming to
actively try to do so. Like, fate happens...
Trois couleurs: Rouge, (Three Colors:
Red, or more simply as it was released in
the US, ‘Red’), is the final film in Polish director
Krzysztof Kieslowski’s trilogy of expressionistic
thoughts on the meanings behind the colors of the French
flag-- Blue, White and Red. Symbolically, blue is
meant to represent ‘liberty’, white speaks to ‘equality’ and
red to ‘fraternity’, or ‘platonic’ love. As
Kieslowski aptly ponders in the quote I opened the column
with, are these ideals contradictory with human
nature? What happens when we try to employ them in our
everyday lives?
Based on his cinematic efforts, Kieslowski seems to argue
that much of what appears to drive our lives
from one day to another is really a matter of fate, or
chance. We may have a core group of friends,
acquaintances and co-workers that we interact with on a
daily or regular basis, but how many do they
number out of all the other people in the world? People who
may live out their entire lives without ever
once coming into contact with you or I. Lives that play out
in ways that may be parallel or divergent, in
ways major or minor. Events that seem unconnected turn out
to have deep common roots.
The color Red is all about fate, and intersections,
and fraternity. It is about blood, and fear, and
warmth, and of course passion.
The story opens with a phone call made by a young woman
named Valentine (Irène Jacob) to her
boyfriend. We see the camera follow what appears to be the
electronic path of the call until we hear a ring
at the other end, and see a man pick up the receiver. But it
is not Valentine’s boyfriend, nor is it a wrong
number. What has actually happened is that there are two
seperate phone calls, each taking place at the
same exact instant. The camera has tricked us-- the man who
has answered is speaking with his
girlfriend, who is not Valentine. He is named Auguste
(Jean-Pierre Lorit), and is a law student. He
lives in an apartment right across the street from
Valentine’s, but we will soon discover that they have
never met one another. From this beginning, it seems
reasonable to assume that these two will soon
interact and become a part of each other’s lives, but
Red doesn’t follow the obvious course.
Instead, we follow Valentine through a day in her life. She
is Swiss, a model; her boyfriend is named
Michael, and she also takes ballet classes and plays one
roll on a slot machine in a cafe nearby her
apartment each morning. She seems strangely satisfied to
lose this tiny daily game of chance, as if winning
would be a bad omen or portent of some kind. She seems to
have a certain blend of forthrightness and
innocence that mirrors the rosy spectrum of hues that appear
all over the screen at regular intervals, some
muted, some intense.
One night while driving home, and momentarily distracted by
trying to tune the radio, she accidentally runs
over a dog, but it is only hurt, not killed. Unsure what to
do at first, she finds the name and address of the
dog’s owner on it’s collar, and after gingerly carrying the
injured animal to her car, drives to the owner’s
home. What she finds when she apologetically confronts the
owner shocks her. The man, a retired judge
named Joseph Kern (Jean-Louis Trintignant), expresses no
particular interest, and suggests that whatever
she cares to do is fine with him, including keeping the dog
for herself if she so wishes.
She takes the dog to the vet; fortunately the injuries are
not serious and she subsequently takes the animal
home. It seems to bond with her, yet when she takes it for a
walk a few days later, it cheerfully runs away.
Unable to shake her memory of the strange, lonely-looking
old man who seemed so rife with indifference,
she takes a chance that the dog may have returned home to
him, and so pays another visit. Sure enough,
the dog is there.
Valentine also discovers that the judge is engaged in the
act of eavedropping on his neighbor’s telephone
conversations. When she appears openly dismayed at this, he
invites her to turn him in to the police, or
even just walk across the street and inform the man whose
conversation with his lover was just overheard
by both the judge and Valentine. Baffled yet again at
Joseph’s apathy, she decides to do just that-- and
discovers that all is not quite so simple as it first
appears.
She returns to visit the judge several more times, her
initial repulsion at his behavior replaced with
increasing curiosity of what is driving this strange man’s
psyche. In between, she continues her phone calls
to Michael, but we do not see them together, we don’t even
know if they are going to continue as lovers or
not. We are left with the impression that this distance is
somehow mutually desirable, that both want to end
the relationship, but seek to avoid the ‘personal’ nature of
doing so.
Meanwhile, August and his girlfriend Karin (Frédérique
Feder) are having troubles of their own. Auguste
discovers that Karin is having an affair with another man,
and is devastated. He is in the process of
becoming a judge himself, but it seems to hardly matter to
him in light of his personal loss.
These are just a few of the threads that gradually weave
themselves into the overall tapestry that is
Red. I can’t recommend this beautiful, evocative film
too highly. While there are a few shared links
between it and the first two films of the trilogy, each part
can stand completely alone, which seems to be
intentional and reinforces Kieslowski’s central idea of
parallels and intersections and the degree to which
chance plays a role in the way events unfold.
This movie may be hard to locate at your local video shop,
but do make the effort if you can-- this is one of
the best movies ever made, anywhere, by anyone. You won’t
forget it anytime soon, and the next time the
light spills long and low over your evening’s journey home,
this can be one more pleasant association to
help your soul expand the moment.
Color me fraternal.
E. Pluribus Cinema, Unum,
OnM
*******
Technical lifeblood:
Trois couleurs: Rouge (‘Red’) is not available
on DVD, according to the Internet Movie Database,
which is a cryin’ shame, sez your humble reviewer, but it is
purportedly available on VHS. (The review
copy was on laserdisc). The film was released in 1994, and
running time is 1 hour and 39 minutes. The
original theatrical aspect ratio is 1.85:1, which was
preserved on the laserdisc copy, but probably is not on
the VHS version, which is an even greater cryin’ shame if
so, because every square inch of the screen is
duly exercised to paint the glorious visuals that go on
frame after frame throughout this entire film.
Screenwriting credits go to Krzysztof Kieslowski and
Krzysztof Piesiewicz. Cinematography was by Piotr
Sobocinski, with film editing by Jacques Witta. Production
Design was by Claude Lenoir. Set Decoration
was by Pierre Agoston, Paola Andreani, Marc Babel, Jean-
Pierre Balsiger, Patrick Flumet, Patrick
Lehmann Daniel Mercier, David Stadelmann and Patrick Stoll.
(Once you see this film, you’ll know why it
took all of these people!) Costume Design was by Corinne
Jorry. Original music was by Zbigniew Preisner
with additional music by Bertrand Lenclos. The theatrical
soundtrack mix was in standard Dolby surround.
The US release of the film is presented in French with
English subtitles.
Cast overview:
Irène Jacob .... Valentine
Jean-Louis Trintignant .... The Judge
Frédérique Feder .... Karin
Jean-Pierre Lorit .... Auguste
Samuel Le Bihan .... Photographer
Marion Stalens .... Veterinary surgeon
Teco Celio .... Barman
Bernard Escalon .... Record Dealer
Jean Schlegel .... Neighbour
Elzbieta Jasinska .... Woman
Paul Vermeulen .... Karin's Friend
Jean-Marie Daunas .... Theatre Manager
Roland Carey .... Drug Dealer
*******
Miscellaneous:
If you find the general themes Kieslowski is examining in
Trois couleurs: Rouge to be as intriguing
as I do, you might also wish to check out his earlier film
The Double Life of Veronique, or of
course the other two ‘Colors’ in the trilogy.
A personal note from your humble movie man: These review-
bracketing sections may continue to be a bit
on the shortish side until either summer gets here and so
reduces my Buffyverse analytical workload, or I
finally get a break from my far more annoying Realverse
workload, which is equally analytical much of the
time, but far, far less fun! (Pays the bills, though, more
or less.. ~sigh~.)
So hang in there, OK? Odds are I’ll be back to normal any
year now! (O, ye of little fate...)
*******
The Question of the Week:
What is your favorite ‘mood-inducing’ film? You know what I
mean, the ones where you leave the theater
and find you are carrying with you this sorta ‘glowy’
feeling, like you just spent the last two hours in some
dream-like universe that you were very averse to leave.
Post ‘em if you’ve got ‘em, dear friends, and I’ll see you
next week.
Take care!
*******
[>
Re: Classic Movie of the Week - May 10th 2002 --
Vickie, 21:44:51 05/10/02 Fri
Chocolat
A beautiful fairy tale of a film, where joy triumphs over
the greyness of life.
Hey! a board theme and a Buffy theme!
[> [>
Yeah, very good choice-- I love that one, too. --
OnM, 22:52:29 05/10/02 Fri
[> [> [>
Wouldn't it be nice... -- Cactus Watcher,
07:10:25 05/11/02 Sat
to have the heroine tell each of us our favorite... I saw
Chocolat in the past few weeks. Sweet in more ways than
one. ;o)
[> [>
good movie - but for triumph over grey don't forget
Pleasantville -- gds, 08:55:48 05/11/02 Sat
[> [> [>
Ah, Pleasantville! One of my very favorite movies of
all time! :o) -- Rob, 11:29:19 05/11/02 Sat
[> [> [> [>
agreed. -- trap, 13:16:31 05/11/02 Sat
[>
Re: Classic Movie of the Week - May 10th 2002 --
Lumina, 00:34:56 05/11/02 Sat
Les Enfants du paradis - the most magical movie ever
made.
[> [>
Re: Classic Movie of the Week - May 10th 2002 -- SLF,
03:14:39 05/11/02 Sat
"Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop
Cafe".....Towanda!!!
[>
Region 2 DVD is available -- Terry, 05:38:24
05/11/02 Sat
[>
Absorbing movie -- SingedCat, 07:20:59 05/11/02
Sat
"What is your favorite ‘mood-inducing’ film? You know what I
mean, the ones where you leave the theater
and find you are carrying with you this sorta ‘glowy’
feeling, like you just spent the last two hours in some
dream-like universe that you were very averse to leave."
And the runners up are:
Shawshank Redemption
The Green Mile
Big Night
And the winner is...
The Milagro Beanfield War
Like Big Night, I was impres